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Any tips for improving low CR monsters against high-level PC's.

Lord Ben

First Post
Okay, in the temple they have lots of NPC's with like +4 to hit and all the PC's by this time are 10th level with AC25 or so. How do you make it so that the PC's are challenged? One thing I do it liberal use of potions of heroism and haste, and also give them say 4 more strength or dex. That seems to at least bring them to where they can get hits on other then nat 20's. As soon as I flank they bust out the cleaves and they die like the scum they are.

Are they just supposed to be fodder and I should deal with it or am I missing some good tactics? I thought about nets, etc but you can only use those once or twice and they become boring.

Anyone have any tricks they use that don't raise the CR but make them tougher? I mean besides using SHARK's Hobgoblins... :)
 

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Yea, just try to get them to use up spells and other resources fighting the fodder then have the tough opponents walk around the corner.
 

Have low-level critters use the Aid Another action.

Have low-level critters use touch attacks of various types.

Groups of low-level critters grappling PC spellcasters.
 

Well, I suppose if you want to be a stickler, anything you do to toughen up a monster technically raises its CR. Of course, you're the DM, so you can choose to beef up the enemy and not give extra XP out.

I sometimes use one-shot or low-charge magic items. Give them a wand of fireballs that has only 2 charges left (in case the PCs should luck out and get it). Your idea of potions of heroism are good.

If your players have high armor classes, perhaps you should do things to reduce it? Imagine some orcs coating the floor of their entryway with something really sticky -- so sticky that the players have trouble moving. Instant loss of Dexterity bonuses. Or, coat the same floor with something slick. When the players keep falling down, they can't fight effectively. The monsters in question can unload a hail of arrows into the party while they fall down like the Three Stooges!

Take advantage of lair construction. Consider murder-holes and arrow-slits. If you have two or three sharpshooters hiding behind a stone wall with some arrow slits, they can wreak havoc on your party before they even have someone to respond to.

Make use of simple traps and ambushes so your monsters can get in flanking attacks, or separate party members so they can't assist each other.

Play dirty. Stun one of the weaker members of the party and take him/her hostage. Demand the PCs throw down their weapons or the player dies. If they do it (this rarely works, but it can still be fun to try!) then attack them ruthlessly while they're unarmed! They'll really end up hating these critters, even if they're a few levels below the party!

Make use of standard tactics. Don't stand in one room advancing rank upon rank to its death. Instead, have a fair portion of the monsters retreat to a better-defended spot. Have them pick up spears or javelins along the way and hurl them at the party as they advance. Retreat to a room beyond a secret door that your monsters know about. When the party follows you into the new room, surround them and cut off their escape.

If you use a few of these tactics, especially if you combine a couple, you could make a lair of kobolds difficult for a 10th level party.

In short, assume that the leader of the monsters has some sort of special knowledge of fighting or perhaps is more intelligent. Maybe he was enslaved by a human army commander, and learned a fair amount before he was able to escape. Make your monsters sneaky and take advantage of the terrain. Use guerilla tactics. Hurl a few Dispel Magic spells at the PCs, or use some magic yourself.

Be devious! :D
 

tactics.. use them

numbers, ambushes, traps, coordination with temple defences, summoned creatures, smart spells

you can buff them all you like but if you send them in at the PCs headlong they'll be cut down
 

uv23 said:
tactics.. use them

Grappling is useful, especially in large numbers, when other attacks fail.

One nasty trick:

From ambush, hit the PC's with a fireball from a wizard with improved invisibility. When the PC's spread out to avoid getting hit en masse, rush out with hordes of goblins to surround and grapple.
 

Another simple way to bump up low level critters is to give them levels. This is a rather high powered example but give a troll two levels of rogue (Improved evasion is EVIL!). Slap a few barbarian levels on those ogres. Heck, if one's high enough, give him a few Blest of Grummsh PrC levels and watch the fur fly!
 

One trick I use is to have mixed races. Like with the group of Orcs is an Ogre who's job is to trip the PC's so the Orcs can descend on them with +4 bonus for the defender being prone (although being tripped doesn't make you lose dex for some reason...) Ogres work well for this since they're only CR2 and they have +9 to trip.
 

First Kobold throws two flasks of oil next to the party
(this makes the floor slippery too where they land, maybe causing balance checks)
etc.
etc.
etc.
Last Kobold throws a flask of alchemist's fire.

Burn and repeat...
 
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Give them some high-level backup. By "temple" I assume you mean RttToEE, right?

When you come right down to it, a 10th level party is going to blow right through a bunch of unsupported 1st level guys. This is unless there's an entire army of them, or there are special circumstances. While it's fine to stack the deck a bit in the mooks' favour, if you go too far down this road, your players are likely to start thinking you're just screwing around with them.

What the mooks serve to do is _delay_ the party and keep them from coordinating to best effect. Have a bunch of them keep the frontline busy while some high-level spellcasters chuck fireballs and other nifty spells from the back. Or mix in some rogues and fighters in the frontline, isolate each of the party members and use flanking to good effect.
 

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