Anyone else annoyed by psionics?

[Psion]

BTW: the game designers also used "about 3 encounters per day" as a design parameter.

In the DMG, under designing encounters, it often talks about how many challenges in a row the PCs can face. It says that by the 4th encounter, things are liable to go poorly for the PCs.

I don't have the DMG here. Page number, anyone?

Okay, looked this up. It suggest a party should rest after the 4th encounter. So if you are assuming the psion only lasts 3, you have your answer right there.

I can't speak to the accuracy of those figures. All I know is that in my games, I have had a high level sorcerer tapped out. And if a sorcerer is tapped out, you know that a psion would have tapped out far before that.

 

[reiella]

Okay, looked this up. It suggest a party should rest after the 4th encounter. So if you are assuming the psion only lasts 3, you have your answer right there.

I can't speak to the accuracy of those figures. All I know is that in my games, I have had a high level sorcerer tapped out. And if a sorcerer is tapped out, you know that a psion would have tapped out far before that.

Largely depends on the type of encounters though really. That's a guideline, and a rather misleading one at that. The one time I actually seem to put a dent in my parties resources are single big encounters, not a sequence of moderate ones (Ah the Isle of Despair, encounter checks every hour in game == fun, especially same EL).

I think the 3~4 number comes from the similar 13 1/3 encounters to level (make the goal level once a month w/ weekly play with 'sleep' as your stopping point in the game).

And hey, I'll maintain that Tornado Blast is worse than Meteor Swarm any time (nor Energy Ball, I'll hesitate on but T. Blast is easy ).

[ side note : ]
Party's tend to like to be prepared for an encounter while they rest too, nothing quite as bad as being in a doubly worse situation because of being both caught resting and unable to strategically fight, at least until/if safe rest options become available (are any available for the psion? Even genesis can be breached I believe)

 

[Thanee]

At no time have I heard you accord that sorcerers were so much as equal to psions, so no, I am not sure what you are talking about.

Didn't expect that, really.

Maybe, when you are bored eventually, check back on what I had written back there (the two major posts), maybe you'll find out then.

What it appears we have here is a failure to communicate in some way. But yet, you are using it as a chance to impugn me. This is what pulled the mods in last time.

Uh, sure, I don't have to remind you who's posting all those insults here, eh?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scharlata]

Thanee

Holy moly! 7 pages of "discussion" and only 2 pages worth it

@Thanee
Keep cool (we know where the verbal injuries come from).

Kind regards

 

[Thanee]

No worries.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Doctor Bomb]

Psions On Parade

Do they? ...What I'd be interested in hearing is actual examples of how psionic characters have hogged the spotlight or trampled over supposedly tough encounters in your games.

Well, here's the pros and cons of the Psion in my campaigns. I haven't house-ruled anything from XPH yet, as I only had 1 player using it for about 6 months before the campaign ended due to everyone moving. From levels 5 on, it was an Elf Psion Shaper and a human Ranger. Each had a chance to shine, but the Psion DID trample a few encounters that should have been tough, because of his character's FOCUS. With saves against his powers starting at 17 IIRC, most creatures just folded up under a Mind Blast. Due to a couple crappy saves, BOTH times a dragon decided to do a Dive and grab one of the characters to snack on later, said dragon plummeted head first into dirt and rocks and died from massive damage.
BUT, as has been posted before, a couple of encounters maxing out that Mind Blast or his other favorite, Energy Bolt (if he had line of sight) or Energy Blast (if he was taken by surprise/surrounded) and he was pretty helpless. At the end of the campaign, the Psion was 14th, and the Ranger was almost 16th (Psion was burning XP on making items during downtime in cities). MORE THAN ONCE the Ranger had to throw up an Entangle and cast Longstrider on himself to take the spent, nearly dead Psion away from combat.
Once those PP's are spent, the psion is running around with a really poor Fort Save, and really low HP's. The Ranger was running around with some utility spells, good AC, good Fort Saves, and of course, a Mighty longbow with which to smite his enemies. Even though the Psion had a bow, he couldn't hit the broad side of an Ogre with it, and usually ended up in Melee with a rapier and no chance to survive. Alone, the Psion would have died MANY, MANY slow painful deaths. The ranger cast Entangle and ran, shot until it fell (and did successfully many times).
IN THE CITY, however, the ranger ran around offending everyone while the Psion wandered off on his own, and used his vast array of mental powers to get everything they wanted at half price, interrogate lesser members of the local rogues guild, and talk the guards out of arresting the ranger.
It just depends on how you run your campaign, but I never had a problem with the Psion that was a gamebreaker.

 

[Psion]

Well, here's the pros and cons of the Psion in my campaigns.

(snip)

Thanks. It sounds as if both characters had a chance to contribute, which sounds like it meets my criteria.

 

[Scion]

With saves against his powers starting at 17 IIRC, most creatures just folded up under a Mind Blast. Due to a couple crappy saves, BOTH times a dragon decided to do a Dive and grab one of the characters to snack on later, said dragon plummeted head first into dirt and rocks and died from massive damage.

I am a bit confused, a bit of clarification please?

DC's starting at 17 means 22 int. This part should be ok, although not likely for level 5 so it must be by the end of the carear (level 14).

Mind blast is a 3rd level power, so has a dc of 13+int mod (dc 19 in the highest case).

The psion beat SR for the dragon, the dragon failed its save, it was within 30' of the psion (that is the range of psionic blast, but I am unsure if you meant mind thrust or psionic blast anyway), and it took 50+ damage from falling 30' only to fail a dc 15 fort save?

I suppose the last could be from dive and a readied action (for more than 30' of falling damage) but it would have to be from at least 150'. Sounds like the dragon was just asking for it anyway Definately a lot of very unlucky rolls for it too!

Just wondering if I was mistaken, sounds incredibly unlikely once, and twice nearly off of the scale of unlikelyhood. (massive damage and Massive Damage might be two seperate things as well, I just think of the massive damage rule whenever anyone says massive damage )

 

[reiella]

Well, here's the pros and cons of the Psion in my campaigns. I haven't house-ruled anything from XPH yet, as I only had 1 player using it for about 6 months before the campaign ended due to everyone moving. From levels 5 on, it was an Elf Psion Shaper and a human Ranger. Each had a chance to shine, but the Psion DID trample a few encounters that should have been tough, because of his character's FOCUS. With saves against his powers starting at 17 IIRC, most creatures just folded up under a Mind Blast. Due to a couple crappy saves, BOTH times a dragon decided to do a Dive and grab one of the characters to snack on later, said dragon plummeted head first into dirt and rocks and died from massive damage.

Hmm, some curious comments here, I don't disagree with your experience and actually don't want to get into that topic at all , just a few things jumped out at me.

You do mean Psionic Blast, correct? Or is this an illithidkin with mindblast? Just make sure you're following the XPH form of Psionic Blast if you are (Power Resistance: Yes, 30 Ft Range, Area: 30 Ft Cone), because the fall damage potential should really be only 6d6.

The Dragon-Dive, does the Psion just ready an action for the Dragon to start diving, is it an aerial encounter where the Psion wins initiative, or does the Dive take multiple rounds? Just curious as to the situation of the Psion actually hitting the Dragon with Psionic Blast.

 

[DreamChaser]

You do mean Psionic Blast, correct? Or is this an illithidkin with mindblast? Just make sure you're following the XPH form of Psionic Blast if you are (Power Resistance: Yes, 30 Ft Range, Area: 30 Ft Cone), because the fall damage potential should really be only 6d6.

That should be 3d6, unless the power somehow doubles falling damage. A spells effect cannot reach beyond it's range. The range is 30 feet. So if the dragon were 30 feet directly above you, it would fall 30 feet, take 3d6 damage and crush you. More likely it would be at an angle which would reduce the height some...I'd say to around 20 feet or 2d6 damage.

DC