Anyone else miss weapon speed?

[EarthsShadow]

Since this hasn't been mentioned, has anyone seen everquest? They use a modified weapon speed system where weapons are classified according to general terms: slow, normal, fast, very fast, or something like this. What these do is change the amount of iterative attacks a person gets with that weapon, depending on their Base attack bonus. [side note: they don't use the standard d&d multiple attack system (+11/+6/+1 type of thing which is based on individual classes), the weapon's speed determines when they get multiple attacks, with that weapon).

That said, here is another option for those that like specific weapon speeds with their weapons:

You roll initiative once, but don't use a d20 since their can be so much difference in what you roll. Use a d10. Add in your weapon speed, and start at 1. Count up, and each time you attack, add in your weapon speed to your attack and the new number is when you get your next attack during the combat. Here is an example of how this would work:

Let's say (hypothecially) that someone is attacking with a longsword, with a speed of 5. Another person has a bastard sword, speed 9. Then daggers have a speed of 3.

Longsword person rolls a 3, bastard sword rolls a 5, and dagger rolls a 9. Start combat at this point.

Longsword goes first at initiative 3. Makes attack, then adds a speed factor of 5, new total is 8. Bastard sword goes at 5, makes attack, then adds factor of 9, new total is 14. Longsword goes at 8, makes attack and then adds factor of 5, making new total of 13. Now the dagger person goes at iniative 9, makes attack, and adds factor speed of 3, new total of 12.

At this point, combat factors would be as follows:
Dagger - 12
Longsword - 13
Bastard Sword - 14.

The numbers just keep going up, and you never have to roll initiative again between these parties. The higher the speed factor, the lower amount of attacks that person gets, as you can tell.

Of course one can come up with a slew of feats for this kind of system, lowering speed factors for those that specialize with weapons, and there could be some classes that get class abilities that also lower these speed factors.

You can even come up with maneuver speed factors, like using a tumbling skill to somersault over someone and then attack, or using two weapons at the same time in a single attack.

 

[Sir Hawkeye]

In a way, being inside a large weapon's reach is already modeled in D&D:

You can only use a light weapon while grappling.

I would think that covers most of the need for weapon "speeds" without too much contradiction or messy rules additions

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Wow, you guys all beat me to the punch, as it were. The other posters are very much correct. A greatsword can be wielded in a surprising diversity of ways, such that although the guard positions all have their weaknesses, there is no such thing as being 'inside' in a permanent way. You can swing it in two hands, conan style. You can thrust with it held in front of you like a spear. You can grab the lower part of the blade in your (gauntletted) hand and use it a bit like a quarterstaff. And to top it all off, if some smart-aleck cutpurse tries to get too personal, you can conk him with the pommel, guard, or your fists on the hilt, targetting his guts or head, or thrust at his feet or cut at his groin from a hanging guard that still protects you. You can even use the blade or your hand to bind or grab his thrusting dagger-arm, if you're quick, and then use the pommel on his head or gut. And if he breaks the close-in fighting, you can probably cut at him whilst he disengages.

Man both sides of this argument seem to be just as misleading. No if you get in close to a greatsword wielder he doesn't all of sudden curl up in a ball and die. But no a greatsword wielder or any other big weapon wielder is not at their prime when someone gets in close. The advantages a polearm wielder has up close and personal are reduced signifigantly and the dagger wielder would be on much more even footing, and if he got in even closer many weapons are jsut too big to be used.(also the dagger wilder up close and perosnal probably could slash/stab more often with it than a greatsword wielder could pommel smash or whatever)

Getting in close though would likely be a difficult proposition to say the least. Though if amored with lots o daggers you could effectivly throw them against lightly armored individuals.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Weapon wieght would also be a factor, some one whipping around a greatsword like a maniac trying to keep up with the knife or rapier guys quick shots is going to wear down pretty quick.

 

[WizarDru]

Didn't miss it, since I didn't play 2E, and have no desire to add more levels of abstraction for little or no percieved benefit on my part to the game.

Combat is long enough under 3E, particularly at high levels. I really don't see any need to make it any more complicated or lengthy, merely for some unrealistic perception that it is modelling some aspect of combat slightly better. Such a goal is unobtainable, for the most part, and not terribly fun to play.

I don't want to play a tactical combat simulator that requires me to anal-retentively track dozens of factors. I want to KILL ORCS. If you prefer that play-style, more power to you. The rest of us will be over here.

KILLING ORCS.

 

[Kithmaker]

...getting into this one late, but yes, I do miss weapon speed.
However, I think that d20 combat is painfully slow as it is, what with keeping track of reach and threatened areas and flanking and attacks of opportunity, so I think it's good that they did away with it -- if only to cut down on even more combat time.

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

Even though it's clear that a Zweihänder (which I suppose you are talking about when referring to the fantasy great sword) is an awesome weapon in capable hands it's still slower to strike with a Zweihänder than with a a rapier because of the Zweihänders much larger mass; it's pure physics - it just doesn't accelerate and decelerate as fast as a lighter weapon. Even so, I agree completely, that because of it's longer reach, the Zweihänder would always get the first strike. But if that strike miss, the Zweihänder-wielding swordsman is open to several attacks from a capable rapier-wielding swordsman before the Zweihänder-wielder has regained his guard and can reclaim his reach advantage.

Barring surprise, reach IS the most important advantage in a fight, but speed does have it's advantages, too.

 

[Storm Raven]

Weapon wieght would also be a factor, some one whipping around a greatsword like a maniac trying to keep up with the knife or rapier guys quick shots is going to wear down pretty quick.

Probably not as much as you might think. Most greatsword cuts are likely to be quick, short arc wrist motions. Because of the weight and length of the blade, you don't need to make long looping swings to gain power behind your cut. A short rotation of your wrists is more than enough to get killing leverage.

Remember: using a greatsword is about economy of motion, not looping swings. Blade in front, at guard, rotate slightly for a cutting attack, thrust when possible.