Anyone want to help adjudicate a Wish spell?

[domino]

Now if she were really smart, the wish would have simply been "I wish that the breath weapon didn't hit them after all."

 

[Scion]

Interesting that you view using wish to bring three people back from the dead as a "small" effect. I take it that resurrection and wish magic is common-place in your games?

note that this is not bringing people back from the dead, it is undoing a negative effect that 'just happened'.

Would you allow the change if the poison had not killed them? There really isnt any difference here, all it is doing is undoing what just happened, or changing it in some day. The overall end effect from the players is impressive, but what actually changed is 'very' small.

 

[Talmun]

note that this is not bringing people back from the dead, it is undoing a negative effect that 'just happened'.

I disagree; the "negative effect" killed the characters. At the time of the casting of the wish, they are dead. After casting the wish they will be alive. If you're going to play semantics with the timeline and say that after the wish they were never dead, then does the Sorcerer get her 5,000 XP back?

Would you allow the change if the poison had not killed them? There really isnt any difference here, all it is doing is undoing what just happened, or changing it in some day. The overall end effect from the players is impressive, but what actually changed is 'very' small.

Would I allow it if they hadn't died? Yes, but I'm not saying that it shouldn't be allowed. I'm saying that it's beyond the ability of wish as written to bring three people back from the dead or turn back three unfortunate events; Remember we are talking about three failed saves, one for each person dead. Wish can bring back one person, or undo one unfortunate event, and then only if it's cast within one round.

Were I the DM, I would still allow it to bring them all back, but there would be some type of repercussion. Not necessarily combat-based and certainly not vindictive, in fact, I would use it as a springboard for role-play and story.

 

[Scion]

I disagree; the "negative effect" killed the characters.

No, the negative effect is that they failed the save of the poison. Everything else is in reaction to that negative effect.

There is no difference at all if they had failed and died or failed and were simply injured, undoing the poison save is all that is needed.


Failing that I would have no problem with the revivifies. Both seem very in line with the cost.

 

[Kazuel]

I liked the idea of rezzing them and having Death come to collect three souls. After some RPing the players should agree to take the lives of 3 people of death's choosing (or he takes the three characters instead). Make the 3 characters the nicest, most holy or good people you can think of. Benevolent Kings, High Priests of whoever, an infant child, or the old lady that runs the orphanage are all some good examples of who could be marked for death. Obviously you'd have to give the PCs an out on actually killing these people less they want to start becoming evil. I'd be interested to see if any of the players would opt for suicide instead of killing these people. Could make an for an interesting adventure. Oh yeah and I'd have Death (or who ever is representing him) assure the players they will not cheat fate a second time.

or

You could have Death take the lives himself and you could choose the rulers of 3 nations and let the civil wars errupt as the people fight for power. Now, the PCs have not 1 but 3 nations to stabilize (which shouldn't be unrealistic considering they are casting wish). What ever you do, make sure the PCs know that there are always consiquences for their actions.

just my 2cp

 

[Talmun]

No, the negative effect is that they failed the save of the poison. Everything else is in reaction to that negative effect.

There is no difference at all if they had failed and died or failed and were simply injured, undoing the poison save is all that is needed.

Failing that I would have no problem with the revivifies. Both seem very in line with the cost.

I see.

The problem here is that the negative effect (the failed save) and the death happened in the same round, simultaneously, in fact. You can't undo the one without undoing the other.

 

[Scion]

The problem here is that the negative effect (the failed save) and the death happened in the same round, simultaneously, in fact. You can't undo the one without undoing the other.

The damage killed them, if you make the damage not happen then they didnt die. As simple as that.

Simultaneously is a bit hard to call. They were poisoned, made a save, failed it, that did damage, the damage took them beyond some threshold and they went into the 'dead' status.

Make the save happen differently and nothing else after that point occured (although the exp and slot are still spent, just like any other effect that changes things in that way, come up with your own campaing reason why this is so, it changes for each).

I just feel that undoing a fairly simple thing, paying a 9th level spell, and paying 5k exp is payment enough.

To each their own though.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Bring them back, and also bring back the half-iron golem. But it is now more powerful; it has fast healing and can fly!

The reasoning is that every action has an equal and opposite reaction; to bring back two more lives than the standard spell can do, the scales are balanced by bringing the foe back twice as strong. 3-2 = 1.

 

[Sejs]

Remove the effects of the poison that killed the three PCs. It seems straightforward enough.


It's a simple, unselfish wish.


Don't screw your players on Wishes just because you can or they'll dread ever having to use what is supposed to be a useful spell.


Just undo the poison that killed them as if it never happened. They're alive, just as beaten and mangled as they had been, just without the effects of that poison. Don't send Maruts after them. Don't have Death show up to collect his six coppers. Don't do anything ridiculous like that. The caster isn't trying to become Superman, they're trying to reverse a tragedy and burning 5,000 xp to do so. Let it slide.

 

[Kelleris]

#3: This isn't screwing around. The sorceress (and in turn the player of the sorceress) should know what the spell description of Wish says. She should also know that she is essentially asking for 3 wishes in 1.

I meant "screwing around" in the sense that there will be some dangerous and semi-arbitrary consequences; a poor choice of words on my part. Something like "Well, just before you repeat the incantation, you suddenly remember Kezzeldrix the Unpleasant, who used a similarly mighty dweomer to save his allies from a red dragon's breath. They say he was dragged to Mechanus and never seen again. You doubt that always happens. Probably. But you might want to keep an eye out for a few months, at least."

Honestly, though, I consider the "safe" wishes to be very safe indeed, with absolutely no negative repercussions conceivable. Something like this I see as only very mildly risky, like entailing a 1% chance that you attract the attention of a Marut Inevitable. It's a reasonable use of a 9th level spell and a boat-load of XP, so I would have some kind of token risk and let it go.

That said, I think I was being too testy. (Previous posters were getting my gourd up.) Depending on the campaign situation, I think the inevitable idea would be interesting, and I'd move that to my #2 slot. Maybe roll a 25% chance and just see what comes up and run with it.

I also have enough rapport with my players that if they started using wish as a reset button every time they had problems (highly unlikely in any case) that I wouldn't have a problem (personally, or from their side of the screen) screwing them over the third tiime they tried it, or whatever. I also don't feel antagonistic enough towards them to carefully avoid giving them any inches, for fear of losing miles.

Dang it, one more edit: There's also the unselfish angle. It's a point in favor of granting the wish without hurting the players that doing so encourages something I want to encourage as DM - the players being nice to each other and building strong intraparty bonds. I personally would also enjoy the potential RP of the three dead guys recognizing the sorceress's act of generosity.