AoO - Karmic Strike

[Vlos]

Ok,

In a good session last night we had a really big combat against some nice BBEGs.

One of our newer members has created a fighter character around Attacks of Opportunity (AoO).

He has amoung others:
- Karmic Strike in which you declare that you are taking a -4 AC to take retributive strike against a character that hits you and does more than 10 damage.
- Epic Combat Reflexes which allows unlimited AoO.

Now in the rules it states the following:

Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: ...This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity).

So if a BBEG attacks said character (who has Karmic Strike) with a full attack options does each attack provoke a separate AoO with Karmic Strike or should it be considered one AoO opportunity.

In last nights session, the BBEG hit the player, he took his Karmic Strike and used a Disarm attack to disarm the BBEG on his first attack. As a free action the BBEG drew another weapon (quick draw) and hit him again with his second attack, we (at the time considered it a separate AoO opportunity, and thus the character got a second Karmic strike against him (he hit for more than 10). and he disarmed him again. The BBEG drew another dagger as a free action (can you get multiple quick draws in one round?) and again hit the player, and again he made another disarm sending the dagger flying. The BBEG finally just started pummeling him with his fists as he was out of weapons for his last attack.

Was this right? This seems a little powerful if allowed to do it against all foes?

Also is Karmic Strike declared against a single foe or just in general thus can be used against multiple foes if such engaged?

The character is also a Half-Ogre with a Spiked Chain, thus has a 20' reach and gets lots of AoO.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[Oscar carramiñana]

Yes the Fighter rolls an AoO for every attack, movement into their Threatening area, sunder attempt, disarm check, trip attack, spell casting...
The next BBG starts with a disarm
for the question of quickdraw I don't have any book here but I think what the times you can do QD are the same as free action you can do.
I hope that helps

 

[Darklone]

Don't let him combine Karmic Strike with the MiniHB feat for +4 with AoOs and C-expertise

 

[Malcyrus]

The sequence you described is correct by the book. For what it's worth, I'd say Karmic strike as written should be an Epic Feat - it's just that good. I'd even suggest a lesser Karmic strike that is limted to 1 AoO per turn as a prerequisite.

A really, really nasty combination is Karmic Strike on a Rogue with the Epic feat Sneak Attack of Opportunity and staggering strike (From Races of Faerun). The BBEG won't get to complete that full attack...

 

[James McMurray]

IDHTBWM, but IIRC Kharmic Strike forces you to attack the person, and thus disallows disarms.

I agree with Malcyrus, in the proper build (i.e. tank with high hit points, good dr, and/or clerical spellcasting) Karmic Strike is super nasty. One of the guys over at Exodus coupled it with Sneak Attack of Opportunity (all AoOs are sneak attacks) and Staggering Strike (drop 3d6 SA damage to stagger your foe).

I believe there is also a feat that allows AoOs if you get missed, but they may be only on a charge or only allow trips or something. If so, the two would combine to ensure that you always get to attack anyone that attacked you.

 

[Darklone]

I houseruled Karmic Strike. It only works now while the person is raging, either by the spell or class ability.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

I'm playing a build with KS - it's an interesting build - but I wanted to chime in with a question - where did you get the 10 points of damage requirement? I'm using KS out of the complete warriors handbook, and all it requires is a successful hit by an opponent, to which you *may* respond with an AoO. Currently, the build is dedicated to tripping said opponent with a spiked chain, but that 10 pt rule may break it.

FYI - since it says when the opponent successfully deals damage to you - then yes, every attack in a full attack that hits and deals damage to you is a seperate attack of opportunity . If your GM allows the trip on an AoO - they are in trouble to complete that full attack!

 

[hong]

There's no damage requirement. Personally, if KS came up in my game, I'd probably house rule it to allow only one AoO per opponent (which is how things worked when it first appeared, in OA back in the 3.0 days).

 

[Alpha Polaris]

There's no damage requirement. Personally, if KS came up in my game, I'd probably house rule it to allow only one AoO per opponent (which is how things worked when it first appeared, in OA back in the 3.0 days).

Oh, my... The AoO is granted by karmic strike if the opponent makes a successful melee attack. But if you trip her with the AoO, she's now at -4 to hit, so she might miss, in which case you don't get the AoO in the first place, so she hits you, so... the multiverse defends itself against this paradox and you are both disintegrated.

By the way, just because you trip your opponent won't prevent her from finishing her full attack, albeit at -4. Now, let's consider karmic strike in conjunction with combat reflexes, hold the line, deft opportunist (+4 to AoO) and dual strike (may strike with secondary weapon on AoO). You ready an attack, the bad guy charges you, you get two AoO because he charges, your readied attack, then two more AoO because he succesfully hits you (all of this at your BAB -2, +4 for AoO). Kind of a nice way to say "Welcome"...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Oh, my... The AoO is granted by karmic strike if the opponent makes a successful melee attack. But if you trip her with the AoO, she's now at -4 to hit, so she might miss, in which case you don't get the AoO in the first place, so she hits you, so... the multiverse defends itself against this paradox and you are both disintegrated.

Not quite.

The text for Karmic Strike specifically states that the attacks occur simultaneously. It's actually possible to end up with a double-fatality using Karmic Strike, since the damage for both the initial attack and the KS AoO are both resolved.

(Unlike, for example, an AoO for someone making an unarmed attack, where if the damage from the AoO is sufficient to kill the attacker, the unarmed attack damage never actually occurs.)

EDIT - someone came up with a nifty scenario at one point, where two people with Karmic Strike, Improved Combat Reflexes (the epic feat for unlimited AoOs), and some feat or PrC ability that allows an attack with both main and off-hand weapons on an AoO. So the first person makes his first attack, and if it hits, then simultaneously the defender hits with two AoOs, and if they both hit, then simultaneously the attacker hits with four AoOs... by which point we've run out of arms, but hell, these people are Epic...

-Hyp.