D&D 5E Arcana Cleric Choices

[pukunui]

Hi all,

I'm playing a human arcana cleric. He's currently 3rd level but the DM says we should level up next session. I'm facing some indecision when it comes to some of my options. I'm aiming for a more ranged character, as everyone else in the party is focused on melee (half-orc barbarian, dwarf fighter, and human rogue/warlock).

Currently, my PC's got acid splash and ray of frost as his wizard cantrips. At 4th level, I'll get another cleric cantrip, and I'm thinking I might pick up sacred flame. If I do, I'm not sure if I should keep acid splash or not. It's nice because it can potentially target two creatures, but because it requires a Dex save, targets can potentially get a bonus on their save if they've got cover (which could be from his melee-oriented allies). Targets don't get that bonus against sacred flame, however ... but then it can only target one creature at a time. So there's definitely a trade-off, and I just can't decide which is preferable. It would be nice to have a spell he can cast without having to worry about if his allies are in the way or not.

And if I do swap out acid splash, what would I take in its place? I've thought about taking frostbite instead, but then I'd have two cold-based cantrips. Shocking grasp would make for a nice melee option, should I need it. At the moment, I've got a +2 dagger, but the damage from shocking grasp will outstrip it once I hit 5th level.


I'm also not sure if I should bump my Wisdom up to 18 or take a feat. I took Resilient (Con) as my human bonus feat. I could take Spell Sniper, but it would really only benefit a few spells, namely ray of frost and guiding bolt and such, and the only viable option I can take with the feat is magic stone.

Another option might be War Caster, but I think I'd only really need that if I were to stick with the dagger rather than take shocking grasp.


As an aside, I've also been pondering taking a dip into wizard for some more utility spells. My PC's Intelligence is only 13, so I'd focus on things that don't require an attack roll or saving throw, and there are plenty of those. I could pick up things like mage hand and prestidigitation as cantrips, and then fill his spellbook with rituals (alarm, comprehend languages, identify, etc), defensive spells like shield, and maybe even unseen servant. The trouble is, I'm not sure I want to delay any of the nice arcana cleric features. I'm looking forward to Spellbreaker at 6th and Potent Cantrips at 8th. If I leave the dip until 9th level, that might be too late to make it worth it, as we're only going up to 10th or 11th level (we're playing SKT).


Anyone got any thoughts? I hate it when I get all indecisive like this.


Cheers,
Jonathan

 

[Kobold Stew]

Two thoughts.

1. Assuming PHB and SCAG only, the Arcana Cleric is a unique cleric option in that it lets your cleric have a targeted cleric cantrip: the player gets to roll the attack with the Arcana cantrips. As is implicit in your question, PHB Cleric attack cantrips are all responsive -- victim makes a save. Sure, some DMs might let a player make that roll, but it's still more fun (in my book) to have a targeting attack, even if you still need to get past armour etc. Responsive attacks get to bypass cover, and so if your DM uses cover rules regularly, you should be sure to keep one of these cantrips (sacred flame); targeting cantrips mean you get to roll the attack which is fun (and I like Ray of Frost). This lets you still get your ranged focus to help the party.

2. Since you have a feat, why not use it to pickup the Wizard spells you want? Two utility cantrips and a spell (shield, find familiar, whatever). Or Ritual Caster? Then you can stick with the cleric, and still get the flexibility you want. It's not optimized, but if it gets you the character you want, I would say go for it.

 

[pukunui]

Assuming PHB and SCAG only, the Arcana Cleric is a unique cleric option ...

All books are allowed, although I'm not sure that makes any difference. There's not much I can take from the EEPC.

As is implicit in your question, PHB Cleric attack cantrips are all responsive

Part of the problem is the cleric only has one combat cantrip anyway. The rest are all utility cantrips.

Responsive attacks get to bypass cover, and so if your DM uses cover rules regularly, you should be sure to keep one of these cantrips (sacred flame); targeting cantrips mean you get to roll the attack which is fun (and I like Ray of Frost). This lets you still get your ranged focus to help the party.

Agree. Sacred flame is a must. Is it enough to just have one attack roll cantrip, though? Should I swap out acid splash for another attack cantrip, like fire bolt or something?

2. Since you have a feat, why not use it to pickup the Wizard spells you want? Two utility cantrips and a spell (shield, find familiar, whatever). Or Ritual Caster? Then you can stick with the cleric, and still get the flexibility you want. It's not optimized, but if it gets you the character you want, I would say go for it.

I thought about it. My original plan was to take Magic Initiate (Wizard) as my human bonus feat, with mage hand and prestidigitation as the cantrips and mage armor as the 1/day spell, but then I thought that might not be enough, so I decided to go with actual armor instead, and I couldn't really think of a 1/day spell I'd rather take instead. If I dip one level into wizard, though, I can get three cantrips and six 1st-level spells, all of which could be rituals if I wanted (whereas with Ritual Caster, you just get two and then have to hope you find more during the course of the game).

I suppose, though, that I don't really *need* Resilient (Con). I could swap it out for a different feat (if I swapped out acid splash for another attack cantrip, then Spell Sniper would be more worth taking) and then still boost my Wisdom at 4th level.

 

[KahlessNestor]

I like Sacred Flame. As you said, it ignores cover. Shocking Grasp is great because it removes their ability to opp attack you, so you can run away if they get too close.

Sent from my SM-G900P using EN World mobile app

 

[Simonb1]

I like Chill Touch for it's ability to prevent the target healing or regenerating for a while.

Simon

 

[rgoodbb]

I would go with Sacred Flame and one Attack Cantrip.

Then you have a multitude of utility to choose from for your other. I don't think you need more attack than that.

I'm currently playing an Arcana Cleric 5/Monk 2. But am melee based so I have Green Flame Blade with my short sword. However my second cantrip is Mould Earth which I love and use all the time. As you mentioned Mage Hand, Prest, Minor Illusion. They're all great as well.

 

[pukunui]

I would go with Sacred Flame and one Attack Cantrip.

Then you have a multitude of utility to choose from for your other. I don't think you need more attack than that.

You're probably right. I just like having options. I'd take *all* the cantrips if I could!

For the record, I took guidance, light, and thaumaturgy as my other cleric cantrips. If I were to MC into wizard, I'd probably take mage hand, mending, and prestidigitation (and maybe swap out thaumaturgy for spare the dying).

There isn't really a viable way for me to get more attack cantrips except via the two wizard spells I get through the Arcana Domain, though. I have to take either Magic Initiate (Druid) or Spell Sniper with a druid cantrip, since my Int is only +1 and my Cha is +0, and any attack cantrips I take through those feats will be ineligible for Potent Cantrips, since that only applies to cleric cantrips. Magic stone works at first, since it lets you add your Wis mod to damage already, but it falls behind as early as 5th level, when ray of frost starts doing 9 damage on average, while each magic stone would still only be doing 6 or 7 damage on average (depending on my Wis score). It kinda sucks that clerics only get one combat cantrip.

I'll stick with ray of frost as my main ranged attack, and I'll pick up sacred flame for when cover becomes an issue. So I really just have to decide what to do about acid splash. Shocking grasp would be nice for when I find myself in melee, but I could always just rely on the +2 dagger for that, if I have to. I suppose if I were to swap out acid splash for a non-attack cantrip, I might take either mage hand or prestidigitation (and then replace thaumaturgy with mending).

 

[rgoodbb]

You could have a solid backup Melee Cantrip with that +2 dagger....

But Shocking Grasp is a decent chance at escape as well.

You still have a ways until Potent. What do you feel you want right now?

I love Magic Initiate btw. I also love druid cantrips. No Potent, but Thorn Whip (my fave), Mould Earth/Shillelagh/Produce Flame and Entangle are are yummy choices for me.

 

[pukunui]

You could have a solid backup Melee Cantrip with that +2 dagger....

But Shocking Grasp is a decent chance at escape as well.

Yeah, I think shocking grasp will be a better choice than the dagger (especially when I hit 5th level and the damage goes to 2d8) because of the escape option. I'll probably hang on to the dagger anyway, though, since it's a magic item and my guy is a cleric of Mystra.

You still have a ways until Potent. What do you feel you want right now?

I don't know! That's why I started this thread. I'd really like to make my own cantrip(s), since one of Mystra's tenets is to create new spells. I'm not sure what I'd make, though, to be honest.

I love Magic Initiate btw. I also love druid cantrips. No Potent, but Thorn Whip (my fave), Mould Earth/Shillelagh/Produce Flame and Entangle are are yummy choices for me.

Thorn whip is cool but I'm not sure I want to be pulling guys closer to me. Produce flame is quite cool, even if it is mostly inferior to fire bolt. I thought about picking up shillelagh and green-flame blade, but the DM persuaded me that building a melee cleric might not be worth it since everyone else in the party is melee-oriented.

Out of curiosity, why do you like mold earth so much?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Out of curiosity, why do you like mold earth so much?

Create graves or pit traps in less than 30 seconds. Create cover, fortifications, or killing ground for ranged party members. Destabilise, collapse or dig under buildings. Make topological maps to plan out strategies with the rest of the party.


Its not a high-power combat spell, but out of combat it has a lot of uses.