So you would rule out that the elven wizard could not use that 4 hour period of rest to be on watch, or at least not a full watch. That wizard could, however, trust his or her less than 100% senses and be on watch anyway getting the necessary mental rest. True, this might endanger the entire party, but what rule forces the elven wizard to have to be totally alert on watch? It would be a character decision as to wether or not the wizard would be able to get rest on his or her watch.
Arcane Spellcaster Questions
- Thread starter jhanzur
- Start date
Merlion
First Post
jhanzur said:
Yep they are. but as near as I can tell in the rules an elf gets ALL the rest they need of ALL types from 4 hours of trance. if they needed some other type of rest as well in general it would say that. in fact if that was the case they would probably just sleep for 8 hours like humans.
And actualy I would say that if anything trance is more likely to be fully mentaly restful than physical restful. but everything I see in the PHB indicates that for elves its both.
Murrdox
First Post
Read the description for the type of "rest" necessary for wizards to prepare their spells.
The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If the wizard's rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time the wizard has to rest in order to clear his or her mind, and the wizard must have at least 1 hour of rest immediately prior to preparing spells. If the wizard does not need to sleep for some reason, the character still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.
Basically, yes, you can have an elf on watch... but he's not going to be very useful. He has to be mentally very relaxed, and he can't move. This means that the wizard cannot make spot or listen checks, and means he'd be pretty useless on watch.
Now, this doesn't mean he's COMPLETELY useless of course. You don't need to make listen checks in order to hear people talking to you... and saying one or two words now and again doesn't qualify as "conversation" in my book. Similarly, you don't need to make a spot check to see the ground, or the road you're traveling on, or people sitting next to you... so if someone strolls into the camp, or shouts hello from nearby, the wizard should be able to respond.
A rogue trying to sneak into the camp would get by easily. No matter how badly the rogue is sneaking, the wizard would still have to make a spot or listen check.
However, if the camp were being surrounded by Dire Wolves that were spread a radius of 20' around the camp, and they were howling at the moon and about to attack... the wizard could see that, and at least do something like shout a warning to the other party members without breaking his relaxation.
The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If the wizard's rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time the wizard has to rest in order to clear his or her mind, and the wizard must have at least 1 hour of rest immediately prior to preparing spells. If the wizard does not need to sleep for some reason, the character still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.
Basically, yes, you can have an elf on watch... but he's not going to be very useful. He has to be mentally very relaxed, and he can't move. This means that the wizard cannot make spot or listen checks, and means he'd be pretty useless on watch.
Now, this doesn't mean he's COMPLETELY useless of course. You don't need to make listen checks in order to hear people talking to you... and saying one or two words now and again doesn't qualify as "conversation" in my book. Similarly, you don't need to make a spot check to see the ground, or the road you're traveling on, or people sitting next to you... so if someone strolls into the camp, or shouts hello from nearby, the wizard should be able to respond.
A rogue trying to sneak into the camp would get by easily. No matter how badly the rogue is sneaking, the wizard would still have to make a spot or listen check.
However, if the camp were being surrounded by Dire Wolves that were spread a radius of 20' around the camp, and they were howling at the moon and about to attack... the wizard could see that, and at least do something like shout a warning to the other party members without breaking his relaxation.
Merlion said:
See p. 154 under the "Rest" section. Your rule would be a house rule. Also, see p. 16 top left starting with "Elves do not sleep..." I will quote, "While meditating, an elf dreams, though these dreams are actually mental exercises......" Mental exercises certainly don't correlate with being fully rested mentally. And as before, the nature of magic requires 8 full hours of mental rest, reguardless of race.
Quidam
First Post
So your elf limbers up for the day, memorizes his spells, then the party gets hit by an attack of grues and your elf blows all his spells in one near-death encounter. Can he rest for another eight hours and prep again? Or does he have to wait 24 hours from when he last prepped?
Merlion
First Post
jhanzur said:
Then why dont elves need to sleep? The whole trance thing is taken from Tolkien's elves who are spoken of as being able to "rest" by walking around in a sort of waking dream of memory. Aparently the mental exercises an elf performs constitute "rest" or a recharge of some sort for elves. thats my whole point...elves aparently work differently from other races. Their trance fullfills all the needs in them that sleep fulfills in other races. therefor I dont see why this doesnt apply to spell preperation as well. I know the reason why...because the designers would percieve that as an "advantage" for elves. but in little "balance" issues like thease I say logic over "balance"
Of course all things elvish are highly debated points and most campaigns seemingly do have some "house rules" for elves based on different peoples feelings about them.
I just see this as another instance of a rule thats supposed to provide "balance", but actualy is just inconsistent with logic.
Quidam said:
Given the worthlessness to a party of a wizard who rests for another eight hours after such an encounter, I'm sure he could, as long as he follows all of the rules for rest and spell preparation. To quote p. 154 near the end of the "Rest" section, "... she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells."
Unless there is a rule I don't know about that sais the elf must travel and twiddle her thumbs for another 16 hours before beginning another 8 hour rest period, then I think there should be no problem.
Quidam
First Post
LOL. Yeah, I guess such a wizard would be fairly useless- unless it was his topped-off array of wizardry that saved the party's collective bacon.
I brought this question up before and there seemed to be a divide between those who thought that the fact that the table says "spells per day" implied only a single preparation period per day, and those who merely read the spell preparation section and took the meaning there literally.
Clerics, for example, need to pray for spells the same time every day- that's listed in their spell preparation section. No such mention under arcane preparation...
I brought this question up before and there seemed to be a divide between those who thought that the fact that the table says "spells per day" implied only a single preparation period per day, and those who merely read the spell preparation section and took the meaning there literally.
Clerics, for example, need to pray for spells the same time every day- that's listed in their spell preparation section. No such mention under arcane preparation...
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