D&D 5E Archetype-Multiclass option initial concept

[FrogReaver]

I'd prefer something more like -

You can create a hybrid character. Choose 2 classes. You start off with all the abilities of both classes. You may pick the saves of either class. Your hit die size is equal to the higher classes hit die.

Your hit dice progress at character level 1, 2, 3 etc just as normal.
You gain no new features at level 2. You gain the level 2 features of each class at level 3. You gain the level 3 features of each class at level 5 etc.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I'd prefer something more like -

You can create a hybrid character. Choose 2 classes. You start off with all the abilities of both classes. You may pick the saves of either class. Your hit die size is equal to the higher classes hit die.

Your hit dice progress at character level 1, 2, 3 etc just as normal.
You gain no new features at level 2. You gain the level 2 features of each class at level 3. You gain the level 3 features of each class at level 5 etc.

So, in other words, at level 20 you have all the features of two 11th level classes. That really isn't much different than RAW and just being 10/10 you know. meh

 

[RSIxidor]

I'd prefer something more like -

You can create a hybrid character. Choose 2 classes. You start off with all the abilities of both classes. You may pick the saves of either class. Your hit die size is equal to the higher classes hit die.

Your hit dice progress at character level 1, 2, 3 etc just as normal.
You gain no new features at level 2. You gain the level 2 features of each class at level 3. You gain the level 3 features of each class at level 5 etc.

Levels without gaining some feature, even a very basic one, are boring. It makes it feel like you aren't actually advancing.

 

[Yaarel]

1. Spellcasting, Arcane Recovery
2. SUBCLASS: Rogue: Expertise, Sneak Attack (1d6), Thieves' Cant
3. -
4. ASI
5. -
6. SUBCLASS: Rogue: Cunning Action, SA (2d6)
7. -
8. ASI
9. -
10. SUBCLASS: Rgoue: Uncanny Dodge, SA (3d6)
11. -
12. ASI
13. -
14. SUBCLASS: Rogue: Expertise, Evasion, SA (4d6)
15. -
16. ASI
17. -
18. Spell Mastery
19. ASI
20. Signature Spell

1. Expertise, Sneak Attack, Thieves; Cant
2. Cunning Action
3. SUBCLASS: Wizard: Spellcasting (1st level spells), Ritual Casting
4. ASI
5. Uncanny Dodge
6. Expertise
7. Evasion, Wizard (2nd level spells)
8. ASI
9. SUBCLASS: Wizard: Arcane Recovery
10. ASI
11. Reliable Talent
12. ASI
13. SUBCLASS: Wizard: 3rd level spells
14. Blindsense
15. Slippery Mind, Wizard
16. ASI
17. SUBCLASS: Wizard: 4th level spells
18. Elusive
19. ASI
20. Stroke of Luck

I think you should add race features at every certain number of levels, for more powerful race abilities.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think you should add race features at every certain number of levels, for more powerful race abilities.

Hmm... I've thought about it, but I would need some good ones and characters are already powerful enough IMO (especially with our house-rules!) that they don't need more racial features as well.

One I idea I was inspired from PF2 when browsing through it was the idea of having a handful of racial abilities and you can pick and choose so many of them

 

[GlassJaw]

I think you should add race features at every certain number of levels, for more powerful race abilities.

Better handled with feats, assuming the feat system is robust enough and allows for that level of customization (a la 4E).

 

[Yaarel]

Better handled with feats, assuming the feat system is robust enough and allows for that level of customization (a la 4E).

Feats should be nice, not required.

Feats should be true choices − on top of race (and subrace), class (and archetype), and background (and special in-world features)

 

[GlassJaw]

Feats should be nice, not required.

Feats should be true choices − on top of race (and subrace), class (and archetype), and background (and special in-world features)

Per 5E RAW, yes, that is certainly how feats are implemented, which is a design choice I don't agree with. Feats are too rare, they compete with ASIs, and their balance varies wildly. Because of that, they don't result in very much customization at all since the vast majority of them are never seen.

I've started to do some homebrew design on my own but it's very difficult to change one system (like mutliclassing for example) without having cascading effects on other systems (like feats).

 

[dagger]

When you have a minute can you look at the below and give me your thoughts on it? Someone posted it a couple of years ago and you have more experience in using 1e/2e multiclassing in 5e.

5E old-school multiclassing rules

Old-school Multiclassing in 5E: rule variant Remarks on game balance: with this variation, you gain some potential synergies that in some...

bluishcertainty.blogspot.com

 

[DND_Reborn]

When you have a minute can you look at the below and give me your thoughts on it? Someone posted it a couple of years ago and you have more experience in using 1e/2e multiclassing in 5e.

5E old-school multiclassing rules

Old-school Multiclassing in 5E: rule variant Remarks on game balance: with this variation, you gain some potential synergies that in some...

bluishcertainty.blogspot.com

It is pretty basic and follows a lot of the accepted ideas for old-school multiclassing in 5E.

It isn't far off from where we began, either, but we noticed some issues and decided to do things differently as my post earlier shows. First, it isn't clear from this if you would get two feats if your character was say a Cleric 4/ Ranger 4. Do you get a feat for both classes or ASIs? I wouldn't do that.

Certain things, like Unarmored Defense for Monks and Barbarians, we still allow to stack even though this goes directly against 5E. It really is not subject to abuse unless you are geared for it, and then it is your "thing" so we are ok with it being good. We still don't stack Extra Attack, however, due to the obvious issues that could cause.

We also use spell points now, and you have a single pool. So, if you have multiple spellcasting classes, like my Cleric/Rogue/Wizard I was playing, I cast both cleric and wizard spells using the same pool of spell points.

If you followed that, you would probably be ok. I will warn you that you might run into the HP issue as we did depending on how your DM runs things. I'll give you a concrete example to explain the problem.

Let's say you have 80000 XP for an 11th level Fighter. You have a CON 16. Taking average hp would give you:

13 (level 1) + 10 * 9 = 103 hp.

Now, take the same 80000 XP between 2 classes, Cleric and Fighter for 8/8 levels. Same CON 16. The article you reference says to use the fighter d10, so taking average hp gives:

13 (level 1) * 7 * 9 = 76 hp.

Those extra 27 hp matter A LOT! (Of course, right?)

Imagine your DM creates encounters as if you were 11th level due to your XP. Well, you might have enough power and options do deal with it, but you might not have enough HP to survie it. Go the other way and your DM thinks of you as 8th level. Now, your hp match ok, but you have way too much power and options and encounters are too easy.

Anyway, if you have any other questions or concerns, let me know and others might chime in.