5E Archetypes to add to 5e

Undrave

Adventurer
Circa 2002 to 2004, a player in my campaign had a halfling Barbarian with lots of skill in Cooking. His family ran an inn, and he joined the party to travel to other lands for new recipes he could bring back home. During the party's travels, he acquired a reputation as a chef that preceded him. As a result of this reputation, the party gained an audience with a king, but he also found himself challenged to cook-offs on a handful of occasions.
Sounds like a hoot!

I guess a Gourmet Hunter could also be a Ranger now that I think about it.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
If you want INT used... especially for the rogue... make Investigation the skill needed to find traps and secret doors. BOOM! Not a single rogue will dump INT.

That's been my split from the beginning... Perception finds hidden creatures and things that can move, Investigation finds inanimate objects and things.
 

Undrave

Adventurer
If you want INT used... especially for the rogue... make Investigation the skill needed to find traps and secret doors. BOOM! Not a single rogue will dump INT.

That's been my split from the beginning... Perception finds hidden creatures and things that can move, Investigation finds inanimate objects and things.
Yeah but a Rogue gets Expertise so they only need like a 1. Besides, that's a very limited scope of things and doesn't help make OTHER non-Rogue more likely to be 'smart'.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
shrug I guess it all depends on the DCs of the traps you set. Plus, when you use Investigation for traps and doors, I find I tend to get fewer Rogues using their Expertise on it because they also have Thieve's Tools, Perception, Deception, and Sleight of Hand to also possibly take instead.

At my personal tables the players rarely just "dump INT" as a standard operating procedure, simply because they like being able to find secret doors plus actually get answers to life's Arcana, Religion, History and Nature questions.

Obviously if other DMs don't use Investigation for that stuff or have players making knowledge checks (or if the entire group is kept together all the time so that all knowledge checks just default to the wizard repeatedly), then sure, the PCs won't tend to need it. But that doesn't mean a DM can't decide to actually make it a more useful stat if they really want to. They just have to choose to run their game in such a way that it becomes more necessary.
 

Xenonnonex

Adventurer
5e is mostly about the Forgotten Realms. Wizards should go through the FRCS and Player's Guide to Faerun and the other 3e supps to think about what to include and what to discard.
We got the long death monk and purple dragon knight from the Player's Guide. Convert the other prestige classes into archetypes and you have a lot to work from.
 

Yaarel

Adventurer
5e used to be mostly about FR.

Staff has changed, and so has setting preferences.
Since 5e polytheism is always ubiquitous and coercive, everything still seems "FR" to me.

I am waiting to see Eberron. The first thing I will do is do search and find for every time the letters "god" or "deit" occurs, and then decide if 5e will ever have a non-FR product.
 

Arnwolf666

Adventurer
One D&D archetype not covered so far is the old school Christian cleric with Sticks to Snakes and Part Water. But it's understandable if they choose not to go there, and it was never a good fit with D&D polytheism.
It would be handy for more historical fantasy settings.
 

Arnwolf666

Adventurer
I've always wanted a "physical transformation/body horror" Barbarian archetype.

Two for Bards I can think of are a College of Dirges (necromancy focused) and College of Hymns (psuedo Cleric basically). I've seen both in homebrew (even made one of them myself), but having official stuff is always nice.

A Chaos-esque domain for Clerics has been mentioned, and one that I would like (I think Order fits for Law, and maybe Trickery works for Chaos, but it's a loose fit.) Another domain I'd like to see is Travel, but that's more personal preference then anything.

This is more gameplay than story, but a dedicated Blaster Druid would be nice to have.

A Throwing based Paladin would be neat, just don't really know how you would tie that to an oath.

I would like an Undead sorcerous origin, maybe have it leech life and turn it into sorcerer points?

Noble Genie Warlock is one that I am honestly surprised hasn't even been mentioned by WotC.

For a new class, I'm always
I can see why they did though, considering Multiclassing is an optional rule and mainly leads to powergaming anyway.
Exactly!!!
 

Arnwolf666

Adventurer
The Cleric class is weird in the D&D tradition.

Essentially it is a healbot with lots of staying power (defenses, hit points, etcetera) but with weak offensive powers (sub par weapons, sub par spells).

Its only ‘flavor’ is problematic: the baking of a specific multiverse setting into its mechanics.

In other words, the Cleric actually lacks its own character concept, and the setting flavor replaces it.



Aspects of the Cleric traditions that could be useful are:

• gish − full caster with melee combat survivability
• domains − ability to choose a thematic set of spells
• healer − access to healing spells and features as one of the domains

Flavorwise, both the Warlock and Cleric can derive their powers from powerful creatures.

The Warlock makes a ‘bargain’, a pact, to gain powers. This is its distinctive character concept.

Perhaps what could give the Cleric its own character concept is, it gains its powers from a specific spiritual community.

The themes of the specific spiritual community, then determine the spell list.

Potentially, the Cleric is the most ‘linguistic’ character concept. The powers come from the semiotic language of symbols, ideals, and themes.

Ultimately, the character concept is the magical power of words, in the language that a specific spiritual community speaks.

If so, the player needs the freedom to choose from a diversity spiritual communities, or pioneer a new spiritual community, in order to give the player latitude to personalize ones own unique character concept.
I would really like cleric archetypes for simulating the historical role of clerics in society. Especially if they can get into pantheism, animism, prophets, oracles, etc.
 
Since 5e polytheism is always ubiquitous and coercive, everything still seems "FR" to me.

I am waiting to see Eberron. The first thing I will do is do search and find for every time the letters "god" or "deit" occurs, and then decide if 5e will ever have a non-FR product.
Polythethism was assumed as the default for D&D before the the Forgotten Realms was even invented.

However, 5e is not "coercive". PHB p64: "[druids gain] their spells and other magical powers either from the force of nature itself or a nature deity". That directly contradicts 3rd edition FR, which required all druids gain thier powers from a nature deity.

As for Eberron, the Wayfinder's Guide has this to say: "As a life cleric with the Mark of Healing, you’re able to use your mark to channel positive energy and perform remarkable feats of healing. You could combine this with religious faith or you could say that the mark alone is the source of your divine magic."
 

Undrave

Adventurer
How about a Fashion Designer Bard? I wonder what kind of mechanic would be involved? They'd probably get Mend as a free cantrip.
 

Yaarel

Adventurer
Polythethism was assumed as the default for D&D before the the Forgotten Realms was even invented.

However, 5e is not "coercive". PHB p64: "[druids gain] their spells and other magical powers either from the force of nature itself or a nature deity". That directly contradicts 3rd edition FR, which required all druids gain thier powers from a nature deity.

As for Eberron, the Wayfinder's Guide has this to say: "As a life cleric with the Mark of Healing, you’re able to use your mark to channel positive energy and perform remarkable feats of healing. You could combine this with religious faith or you could say that the mark alone is the source of your divine magic."
In formative D&D (Blackmoor-0e-1e), polytheism was one among many options, but not a default. Monotheism was also an option. For example, the illustration for the Cleric class in the 1e Players Handbook is a Christian priest. This is because D&D evolved as a medieval genre, including medieval religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, vestiges of European animism and polytheisms, traderoutes to African animisms, Hindu polytheism, Chinese Daoism, various Buddhisms, etcetera).

The gamut of possible religions also increased because of influences from various scifi authors.

The default religion of formative D&D is that the DM will invent a world. Any world is possible. Any religious systems are possible. Whatever the DM wants. The rest of the D&D books are merely tools that may or may not be useful for the DM. The default is that the DM will create a world for the players to explore.

This default, that the DM will invent a new universe, a completely new setting, is so vivid for gamers who have experienced the early years of formative D&D. And yet this default of the DM deciding seems so completely forgotten by gamers in later decades who wrongly think that ‘Greyhawk’ was the default setting.

The original Greyhawk city, a regional setting, derives from the campaign that Gygax himself was playing. But Gygax himself was shocked that there were any gamers who would want to play in the same setting that he himself was using rather than want to create their own settings.

In sum, the default religion is whatever the DM wants. This duty of each DM to invent a world, is the true default of formative D&D.
 

Yaarel

Adventurer
How about a Fashion Designer Bard? I wonder what kind of mechanic would be involved? They'd probably get Mend as a free cantrip.
Bards are more about words.

I see a ‘fashion designer’ as an Artificer subclass who focuses on magical clothing (and armor).
 

Yaarel

Adventurer
As for Eberron, the Wayfinder's Guide has this to say: "As a life cleric with the Mark of Healing, you’re able to use your mark to channel positive energy and perform remarkable feats of healing. You could combine this with religious faith or you could say that the mark alone is the source of your divine magic."
What worries me, is the unofficial discussions about how Eberron will officially relate to the 5e multiverse.

One possibility is that the 5e multiverse will be ‘true’, while Eberron is isolated and ignorant of the ‘truth’.

If 5e polytheism is ‘true’, then the agnosticism of Eberron is simply an error, rather than a fundamental subjectivity. This possibility of polytheistic supremacism destroys the beauty of the Eberron setting in my eyes.

Of course, this ‘truth’ of polytheism would also continue the 5e policy of making polytheism ubiquitous and coercive.

We will see in the final official Eberron product whether the Eberron setting is truly free from the tyranny of 5e polytheism or not.
 

Undrave

Adventurer
Bards are more about words.

I see a ‘fashion designer’ as an Artificer subclass who focuses on magical clothing (and armor).
I dunno, fashion is just a different type of artistic expression and has its own lore and History to explore... but I think you're point on the Artificer makes a lot of sense too. I guess it just depends on how you want the mechanics to align? I'm not familiar with the Artificer yet.

Ooh!

How about the 'clothing' related Bard is an Actor that dresses up and gets so good at it that they gain special bonus for interpreting different roles? Like, they dress up as a criminal to get proficiency in Thieves Tools and Stealth and stuff? They dress as a Priest and they get better at Religion and healing? That sort of crazy nonsense that could only work with magic?

Actor Bard Warforged = Cutie Honey :p

What worries me, is the unofficial discussions about how Eberron will officially relate to the 5e multiverse.

One possibility is that the 5e multiverse will be ‘true’, while Eberron is isolated and ignorant of the ‘truth’.

If 5e polytheism is ‘true’, then the agnosticism of Eberron is simply an error, rather than a fundamental subjectivity. This possibility of polytheistic supremacism destroys the beauty of the Eberron setting in my eyes.

Of course, this ‘truth’ of polytheism would also continue the 5e policy of making polytheism ubiquitous and coercive.

We will see in the final official Eberron product whether the Eberron setting is truly free from the tyranny of 5e polytheism or not.
Yeah I really don't see WHY Eberron needs to specifically being called out as being in the same Multiverse as everything else? Is it something that REALLY enhences the setting? Are people gonna be turned off the setting it if they can't transdimensionally relocate the Forgotten Realms character they've been playing for years?

Or why we need a multiverse in the first place outside of like Planescape or Spelljammer.
 

Arnwolf666

Adventurer
In formative D&D (Blackmoor-0e-1e), polytheism was one among many options, but not a default. Monotheism was also an option. For example, the illustration for the Cleric class in the 1e Players Handbook is a Christian priest. This is because D&D evolved as a medieval genre, including medieval religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, vestiges of European animism and polytheisms, traderoutes to African animisms, Hindu polytheism, Chinese Daoism, various Buddhisms, etcetera).

The gamut of possible religions also increased because of influences from various scifi authors.

The default religion of formative D&D is that the DM will invent a world. Any world is possible. Any religious systems are possible. Whatever the DM wants. The rest of the D&D books are merely tools that may or may not be useful for the DM. The default is that the DM will create a world for the players to explore.

This default, that the DM will invent a new universe, a completely new setting, is so vivid for gamers who have experienced the early years of formative D&D. And yet this default of the DM deciding seems so completely forgotten by gamers in later decades who wrongly think that ‘Greyhawk’ was the default setting.

The original Greyhawk city, a regional setting, derives from the campaign that Gygax himself was playing. But Gygax himself was shocked that there were any gamers who would want to play in the same setting that he himself was using rather than want to create their own settings.

In sum, the default religion is whatever the DM wants. This duty of each DM to invent a world, is the true default of formative D&D.
What you describe to me is what the game is all about. Published settings are just examples of what we should be doing. I respect the person that creates their own world and adventures way more that those that use published settings. That is what the games is about.

And it is not as hard as many think. Start small and expand as needed.
 

Cap'n Kobold

Adventurer
What worries me, is the unofficial discussions about how Eberron will officially relate to the 5e multiverse.

One possibility is that the 5e multiverse will be ‘true’, while Eberron is isolated and ignorant of the ‘truth’.

If 5e polytheism is ‘true’, then the agnosticism of Eberron is simply an error, rather than a fundamental subjectivity. This possibility of polytheistic supremacism destroys the beauty of the Eberron setting in my eyes.

Of course, this ‘truth’ of polytheism would also continue the 5e policy of making polytheism ubiquitous and coercive.

We will see in the final official Eberron product whether the Eberron setting is truly free from the tyranny of 5e polytheism or not.
I think that its likely that the inhabitants of Eberron will just plain follow slightly different rules.
Remember there is no mechanical (and not much of any other type) distinction between arcane magic and divine magic in 5e, and I expect that there is even less in Eberron.
The people of Eberron are pretty solidly polytheistic: almost all beings of Eberron acknowledge the existence of the gods (sovereign host and dark six). However you don't have to worship them to be a cleric.
For example, you can be a cleric by allowing the souls ten thousand dead snakes to pour through you, or thinking that contemplating your navel will lead to better dreams, or that undead are paragons of virtue in the fight against the gods etc.
Or even, as mentioned above, by channelling the mysterious magical tattoo that has been in your family since they were herding dinosaurs on the plains.

I am pretty sure that Eberron will not be monotheistic however, if that is what you are taking "not polytheistic" to mean. Way too many gods, philosophies, cosmic forces or just plain faith granting power.
 

Yaarel

Adventurer
I am pretty sure that Eberron will not be monotheistic however, if that is what you are taking "not polytheistic" to mean. Way too many gods, philosophies, cosmic forces or just plain faith granting power.
My hope is that the Eberron setting will be agnostic.

Fundamentally subjective in ESSENCE.



In addition to polytheistic religious systems, Eberron also includes animistic religious systems (ancestor worship of the elves, and cult of the blood of vol). Technically, the Silver Flame is probably better described as monism, but can be characterized as monotheism.

But what makes Eberron Eberron is the uncertainty and subjectivity. Each of these cultural perspectives are equally valid and utilitarian.



To connect Eberron to the 5e multiverse would destroy the uncertainty, thus destroy the cultural pluralism, thus destroy the mystique of Eberron.
 
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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I think that its likely that the inhabitants of Eberron will just plain follow slightly different rules.
Remember there is no mechanical (and not much of any other type) distinction between arcane magic and divine magic in 5e, and I expect that there is even less in Eberron.
The people of Eberron are pretty solidly polytheistic: almost all beings of Eberron acknowledge the existence of the gods (sovereign host and dark six). However you don't have to worship them to be a cleric.
For example, you can be a cleric by allowing the souls ten thousand dead snakes to pour through you, or thinking that contemplating your navel will lead to better dreams, or that undead are paragons of virtue in the fight against the gods etc.
Or even, as mentioned above, by channelling the mysterious magical tattoo that has been in your family since they were herding dinosaurs on the plains.

I am pretty sure that Eberron will not be monotheistic however, if that is what you are taking "not polytheistic" to mean. Way too many gods, philosophies, cosmic forces or just plain faith granting power.
There are multiple groups that don’t believe the sovereigns or dark six exist as anything more than cultural archetypes, in canon Eberron.
 

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