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5E Archetypes to add to 5e

Undrave

Explorer
Feels like there's a lack of 'Smart' archetypes. Unless you're using Wizard spells you basically have no reason to invest in INT and, like it or not, mechanical support is always gonna be a factor for a majority of players.

Seems like no other archetype needs to be smart and cultured other than those specific spellcasters. Even the Rogues and all their skills can make do with proficiency and expertise to counter bad INT.

I would also support the Acrobat, essentially a Rogue that is divorced from the Thief origin (and its emphasis on Stealth and Thieves Tools use) and just keeps the agility and maybe sneak attack aspect.
 

doctorbadwolf

Adventurer
Feels like there's a lack of 'Smart' archetypes. Unless you're using Wizard spells you basically have no reason to invest in INT and, like it or not, mechanical support is always gonna be a factor for a majority of players.

Seems like no other archetype needs to be smart and cultured other than those specific spellcasters. Even the Rogues and all their skills can make do with proficiency and expertise to counter bad INT.

I would also support the Acrobat, essentially a Rogue that is divorced from the Thief origin (and its emphasis on Stealth and Thieves Tools use) and just keeps the agility and maybe sneak attack aspect.
I feel weird saying this, because I don’t like the fighter, but maybe a fighter subclass that gets extra skills?
 

Undrave

Explorer
Sure, if the ONLY thing it got was extra skills. I'm assuming (guessing?) @doctorbadwolf had more in mind than just that.
Ah yes. More skills is a nice ribbon there's no denying that.

How about something like this:

Keen Tactical Mind
Your knowledge of tactics and their counters means that, when battle lines are drawn, you can evaluate a situation in the blink of an eye. You can then shout quick insights to your allies to make your group more efficient. When you roll for Initiative, add twice your Intelligence modifier to your Dexterity roll. Once you and your allies have all rolled for initiative, you and one willing ally that can hear you can swap result.

And then later there could be a feature that makes you better at readied action (+INT to readied attack rolls), making for a subclass that specializes in initiative manipulation?
 

Fenris-77

Explorer
The Savant is a pretty good template for what can be done with INT focused fighters. So actually is the Battle Master, even though that subclass isn't based on INT use at all, I can see ways that it could be. That said, the Savant is essentially an INT based Battle Master, so it's maybe not odd that those are my two best examples.
 

Undrave

Explorer
The Savant is a pretty good template for what can be done with INT focused fighters. So actually is the Battle Master, even though that subclass isn't based on INT use at all, I can see ways that it could be. That said, the Savant is essentially an INT based Battle Master, so it's maybe not odd that those are my two best examples.
Could have been cool if your superiority dice or number of maneuver had been based on INT mod somehow.

The Savant is a third party thing?
 

doctorbadwolf

Adventurer
It's a bit boring no? Plus I'm not sure it gives more incentive to go for INT as a secondary or even tertiary stat.
Sure, if the ONLY thing it got was extra skills. I'm assuming (guessing?) @doctorbadwolf had more in mind than just that.
Yes, extra skills would just be part of the subclass.

I was specifically referring to the acrobat, but forgot to clarify that. The basis of the fighter acrobat would be getting Athletics and Acrobatics automatically, and then getting movement based benefits as well.
 

Undrave

Explorer
Yes, extra skills would just be part of the subclass.

I was specifically referring to the acrobat, but forgot to clarify that. The basis of the fighter acrobat would be getting Athletics and Acrobatics automatically, and then getting movement based benefits as well.

Oooh... Okay, yeah that makes sense! Yeah I can see Fighter being a decent class for the Acrobat in that case.

I was mostly thinking of the Rogue's ability to disengage as a Bonus Action and tendency to go for light armour BUT what if the Acrobat could replace his AC while moving with an Acrobatics check and then gain various bonus depending on distance traveled each turn? Could make for fun and mobile character. You'd need incentives to stay in the lightest armor and not using a shield... maybe a +1 to AC while wielding a staff two-handed?
 

Fenris-77

Explorer
Could have been cool if your superiority dice or number of maneuver had been based on INT mod somehow.

The Savant is a third party thing?
Yeah, the Savant was part of the Touch of Class supplement produced by this very website. The Savant is actually the free teaser for that book and should still be available for free download hereabouts somewhere. It's cool, I'd recommend checking it out.
 

Undrave

Explorer
Yeah, the Savant was part of the Touch of Class supplement produced by this very website. The Savant is actually the free teaser for that book and should still be available for free download hereabouts somewhere. It's cool, I'd recommend checking it out.
I'll check it out!
 

doctorbadwolf

Adventurer
There was also an intelligence based fighter thread started by @Garthanos recently, but it was focused on 4e.

The Spanish Circle is a great basis for an intelligence fighter. Within x range, you get certain benefits against your enemies, can trick them to move into disadvantaged position, and get defensive benefits based on Int.
 

Undrave

Explorer
There was also an intelligence based fighter thread started by @Garthanos recently, but it was focused on 4e.

The Spanish Circle is a great basis for an intelligence fighter. Within x range, you get certain benefits against your enemies, can trick them to move into disadvantaged position, and get defensive benefits based on Int.
They had a chance to make something of that effect with the Samurai but instead we got a complete flop... And considering how terrible Arcane Archer is, XGtE was not super kind to Fighters...
 

Ashrym

Explorer
I think some of y'all are confusing "archetype" with "class that has the following abilities". A lot of the stuff presented can be covered with existing classes, subclasses, ability (skill) checks, and backgrounds; and multi-classing if need be. A specific archetype doesn't need to be specifically created to exist or be a specific class. ;-)

Bard: college with access to druid spell list. Goes back to 1st edition, which in term goes back to the Victorian reinvention of druids, and the myth of Taliesin.
The easiest way to do this is with a valor bard who has the criminal (spy variant) background. The subclass bakes combat right into it to cover the 1e fighter requirements and the background covers the 1e thief requirements. All that's needed is appropriate skill proficiencies, taking spells shared with the druid spell list, and using magical secrets for druid spells. I've done it with lore bards too.

Alternatively, take 6 levels of fighter, 4 levels of rogue; or 10 levels of druid; or whatever mix feels best. Take entertainer for a background or other suitable background, or make a custom background. Introduce your character as a bard. Expertise in persuasion and history covers the rest. It's pretty much an exact replica of the 1e bard at that point.

This archetype is the basis for most of my bards, lol.

Actually, the Bard makes a great shaman.
Agreed. I had it listed among the bard archetypes in the original test forums for 5e. A shaman preserves history via storytelling, among other things. A bard is one of the first things that comes to mind for the archetype. Clerics and druids also work.

Huh. I can see that. Another case, though, where a dedicated subclass with a couple of flavorful abilities would really bring it to life, instead of having to refluff everything in your own head.
It's not actually refluff unless a person has predetermined the bard is a minstrel of some sort, which is inaccurate. D&D often treats the class like an entertainer, but the roots are deeper than that. Bards were the oral tradition and scholars in many cultures under different names but similar roles. They were historians and keepers of customary law. They were also attributed magical abilities.

It doesn't matter if the name of the class is bard, griot, kahuna, shaman, or ozan. Oral history and tradition being handed down through mnemonic devices (song and poetry) to help remember them is what bards did. The term "bard" comes from specific regions and times but the concepts for various bard archetypes existed everywhere. The ability to entertain was secondary until it become more prominent when they evolved after written history succeeded oral history.

All that really takes is writing it into your bard's background.

I had only thought about it for bards (to become sages, historians, teachers and storytellers) and paladins (for an arcane god, to become gish).
Bards are already those things. Every bard has a bonus to intelligence skills from jack of all trades, but moving into the archetype more only requires the sage background (or similar sources of intelligence skill proficiencies) and expertise in history. Expertise in history, proficiency in religion, and proficiency in perform covers the traditional bard role or story-teller well.

Rogues are cool, but where are the matchstick men, the con artists, that use deceit and manipulation to get what they want? We need some larcenous experts on social skills who get people to part with their wealth under false pretenses.
I saw other answers to this, but expertise in social skills already exists for rogues. That's not requesting a missing archetype; it's requesting special powers regardless of the archetype already being creatable. ;-)

But bards are artists, entertainers, and loremasters, not necessarily interested in stealing. There is definitely overlap, but there should be a roguish version.
The archetype is covered in a background. The class spells and skill proficiencies can be taken to match. Lore master does the job reasonably well.

Bard with the Background of Criminal or Chareltan. Done.
Arcane trickster with the appropriate background and proficiencies works great for the roguish minstrel archetype too. Doesn't even need to be a bard.
 

Undrave

Explorer
I think some of y'all are confusing "archetype" with "class that has the following abilities". A lot of the stuff presented can be covered with existing classes, subclasses, ability (skill) checks, and backgrounds; and multi-classing if need be. A specific archetype doesn't need to be specifically created to exist or be a specific class. ;-)
Maybe not, but Crunch is fun!
 

Pauln6

Explorer
Yeah it is true that part of the fun is building class concepts in different ways. I think they still need to go a bit further on the Warlord front.

As far as the shadowdancer or shadow mage / Warlock / sorcerer goes, I think the gap is possibly due to the lack of shadow themed spells as much as anything else.
 

doctorbadwolf

Adventurer
Yeah it is true that part of the fun is building class concepts in different ways. I think they still need to go a bit further on the Warlord front.

As far as the shadowdancer or shadow mage / Warlock / sorcerer goes, I think the gap is possibly due to the lack of shadow themed spells as much as anything else.
Shadow spells would definitely be nice.

I think the main thing truly missing that’s a big archetype is a Summoner. Not sometime rarchetype that has access to a bit of summoning, but a set of options for focusing on being a summoner. Maybe that looks like a horde-bringer on one class, while another class gets a sub that focuses on bringing forth one really big bastard at a time, and the class gets unique spells at high levels that bring real big stuff into the world for just a moment, manifesting awesome weal for the PCs or woe for the enemy.
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
This may also be features rather than archetype, but the endurance guy. The one that can push themselves farther than anybody else. Something that could be represented by immunity or bonuses vs exhaustion, or more class abilities that rely on Constitution.

And I'd love it if it was a Ranger subclass.
 

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