D&D 5E Archetypes to add to 5e

[Yaarel]

Regarding the ‘meta’ of the Cleric community.

Consider Jungian psychology. (Sometimes it is hard to tell whether Jung is speaking as a scientist, phenomenologically describing the subjective experience of how ones brain processes information; or as a mystic, ontologically describing a fundamental property of the universe.)

‘Synchronicity’ is an ‘acausal cause’ that connects all things that exist. It isnt a chain reaction where one thing causes the next thing. Rather, it is a manifestation of things emerging simultaneously, holistically together. It is a kind of force, or ‘cause’.

A person can ‘engage’ and interact with this synchronicity by means of archetypes. In other words, these connections between things are formed by means of symbolic similarity. (Compare sympathetic magic.)

Jung refers to the ‘collective unconscious’ as a memory of this language of interrelating symbols. It is a language that includes symbols beyond words, such as the prelinguistic memories of being an infant.

According to Jung, this collective unconscious depends on the culture. For example, he thought that Chinese speakers were participating in a different collective unconscious − namely a different semiotic language system − than the one that German speakers were participating in.



Regarding D&D, and what it is − exactly − that the Cleric class is doing.

The Cleric is accessing this language of archetypal symbols, and utilizing the magical power of symbols (via synchronicity, sympathetic magic, etcetera). The class is all about symbols.

When the language of a culture organizes things into one category, this category is an abstraction, a concept, a symbol. This symbol inherently contains every element in this category. This symbol is the connective link between all of these separate elements. Manipulating the symbol can manipulate any or every element within it.

The way that one symbol relates to and interacts with an other symbol, is a system, a language. The symbol is text, and its meaning is the context within the constellations of other symbols that comprise the symbolic language.

The symbolic language depends entirely on the community that is speaking this language. These speakers are the ones who form, use, and understand the meanings and associations of these symbols. The community of speakers can be as small as ten people, or as large as a billion people or more.

The Cleric class is using the magic of symbols. These are symbols that a specific community are using as their language. This language is both verbal and nonverbal, being actual spoken words, nonverbal ceremonial performances, and experiential visions that are beyond words.

By means of words, ceremonies, and personal contemplation, the Cleric engages (and manipulates) the symbols that are the fundament of the reality that the community is experiencing. The symbols have magical power over reality. Symbols themselves are the magical power that constructs a reality. Each ‘spell domain’ of the Cleric class represents a specific archetypal symbol that resonates the deep structure of the communitys linguistic system. The domain is a focal symbol that takes priority, and organizes the other symbols in relationship to it within the semiotic system. It is a ‘deepest’ concept.

The symbols might be physical properties of the universe (such as light, fire, water), ethical principles that a culture depends on for survival (such as love, courage, honor), central institutions that enable survival (such as hunting, farming, war, marriage, legal system, government, etcetera), and so on. The symbol is always a fundamental ‘concept’. The concepts can be abstract principles (more like forces) or poetic personifications (more like persons). The common denominator seems to be, whatever it is that the community considers to be the Most Important Thing that makes existence and survival possible.

People can experientially interact with these symbols by means of introspection, reveries, dreams, visions, and other ‘mind blowing’ experiences (within a realm of ideals, collective unconscious, etcetera). Often the ‘enlightenment’ is precisely the aspects of a reality that cannot be formulated in words or things.

A person subjectively experiences these semiotic symbols as absolute truth. The symbols are powerful and autonomous, and are as real as reality itself. These symbols are what make reality possible.

In sum. A specific community uses a language of symbols (words, concepts, experiences, assumptions). These symbols cause, organize, represent, and influence reality. The Cleric takes on the identity of this semiotic community − and engages and uses its symbols magically. The Cleric employs customs, both verbal formulations and nonverbal ceremonies, to help perpetuate the language that this community employs.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

n any case, D&D seems on safe ground when emphasizing the flavor of the Bard as an artist, an author, an individual. The community is the audience.

By contrast, the Cleric is a collective. The Cleric takes on the identity of a specific community, its language, its symbols, its customs, its point-of-view. The community takes on a life of its own, a unique forceful reality of a unique point-of-view.

I can see this: the bard power are ''for'', the cleric powers are ''from'', the community. The classic individual vs communal trope, even if in this case both are working for the positive of a group.

In both case, I feel their powers are closer to what D&D calls psionic: fuel by the individual or collective emotions and shared principles.

God I miss the 4e Ardent....I may take the avatar disciplines from the failed Mystic UA and give them as spells to the cleric and bard. Or maybe we will see a UA for the Community cleric and the Ardent bard in the next weeks to test new psionic archetypes.

 

[Samloyal23]

Rogues are cool, but where are the matchstick men, the con artists, that use deceit and manipulation to get what they want? We need some larcenous experts on social skills who get people to part with their wealth under false pretenses.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Rogues are cool, but where are the matchstick men, the con artists, that use deceit and manipulation to get what they want? We need some larcenous experts on social skills who get people to part with their wealth under false pretenses.

They became bards?

 

[Samloyal23]

They became bards?

But bards are artists, entertainers, and loremasters, not necessarily interested in stealing. There is definitely overlap, but there should be a roguish version.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Rogues are cool, but where are the matchstick men, the con artists, that use deceit and manipulation to get what they want? We need some larcenous experts on social skills who get people to part with their wealth under false pretenses.

Why wouldn't that be a simple application of Deception and related skills. It strikes me as something that any class could do.
Pretty sure that its a background available to anyone as well.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But bards are artists, entertainers, and loremasters, not necessarily interested in stealing. There is definitely overlap, but there should be a roguish version.

And rogues are bounty hunters, detectives and spies. They aren't necessarily interested in stealing either.

You can build a con artiste quite acceptably with a thief, swashbuckler, mastermind or arcane trickster if you don't want to be a full caster and can look past the label.

 

[Samloyal23]

Why wouldn't that be a simple application of Deception and related skills. It strikes me as something that any class could do.
Pretty sure that its a background available to anyone as well.

You can say that about any archetype, it is a matter of degree, the level of dedicated specialization involved.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You can say that about any archetype, it is a matter of degree, the level of dedicated specialization involved.

It's difficult to see how much further than you can go beyond Expertise in Deception, Slight of Hand, Forgery and Disguise, and/or a spell list that includes things like Friends, Charm Person and Suggestion.

And Swashbucklers get a non-magical charm ability at level 9.

 

[Samloyal23]

With abilities based on running scams using those skills.