D&D 5E Archetypes to add to 5e

[Paul Farquhar]

Since 5e polytheism is always ubiquitous and coercive, everything still seems "FR" to me.

I am waiting to see Eberron. The first thing I will do is do search and find for every time the letters "god" or "deit" occurs, and then decide if 5e will ever have a non-FR product.

Polythethism was assumed as the default for D&D before the the Forgotten Realms was even invented.

However, 5e is not "coercive". PHB p64: "[druids gain] their spells and other magical powers either from the force of nature itself or a nature deity". That directly contradicts 3rd edition FR, which required all druids gain thier powers from a nature deity.

As for Eberron, the Wayfinder's Guide has this to say: "As a life cleric with the Mark of Healing, you’re able to use your mark to channel positive energy and perform remarkable feats of healing. You could combine this with religious faith or you could say that the mark alone is the source of your divine magic."

 

[Undrave]

How about a Fashion Designer Bard? I wonder what kind of mechanic would be involved? They'd probably get Mend as a free cantrip.

 

[Yaarel]

Polythethism was assumed as the default for D&D before the the Forgotten Realms was even invented.

However, 5e is not "coercive". PHB p64: "[druids gain] their spells and other magical powers either from the force of nature itself or a nature deity". That directly contradicts 3rd edition FR, which required all druids gain thier powers from a nature deity.

As for Eberron, the Wayfinder's Guide has this to say: "As a life cleric with the Mark of Healing, you’re able to use your mark to channel positive energy and perform remarkable feats of healing. You could combine this with religious faith or you could say that the mark alone is the source of your divine magic."

In formative D&D (Blackmoor-0e-1e), polytheism was one among many options, but not a default. Monotheism was also an option. For example, the illustration for the Cleric class in the 1e Players Handbook is a Christian priest. This is because D&D evolved as a medieval genre, including medieval religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, vestiges of European animism and polytheisms, traderoutes to African animisms, Hindu polytheism, Chinese Daoism, various Buddhisms, etcetera).

The gamut of possible religions also increased because of influences from various scifi authors.

The default religion of formative D&D is that the DM will invent a world. Any world is possible. Any religious systems are possible. Whatever the DM wants. The rest of the D&D books are merely tools that may or may not be useful for the DM. The default is that the DM will create a world for the players to explore.

This default, that the DM will invent a new universe, a completely new setting, is so vivid for gamers who have experienced the early years of formative D&D. And yet this default of the DM deciding seems so completely forgotten by gamers in later decades who wrongly think that ‘Greyhawk’ was the default setting.

The original Greyhawk city, a regional setting, derives from the campaign that Gygax himself was playing. But Gygax himself was shocked that there were any gamers who would want to play in the same setting that he himself was using rather than want to create their own settings.

In sum, the default religion is whatever the DM wants. This duty of each DM to invent a world, is the true default of formative D&D.

 

[Yaarel]

How about a Fashion Designer Bard? I wonder what kind of mechanic would be involved? They'd probably get Mend as a free cantrip.

Bards are more about words.

I see a ‘fashion designer’ as an Artificer subclass who focuses on magical clothing (and armor).

 

[Yaarel]

As for Eberron, the Wayfinder's Guide has this to say: "As a life cleric with the Mark of Healing, you’re able to use your mark to channel positive energy and perform remarkable feats of healing. You could combine this with religious faith or you could say that the mark alone is the source of your divine magic."

What worries me, is the unofficial discussions about how Eberron will officially relate to the 5e multiverse.

One possibility is that the 5e multiverse will be ‘true’, while Eberron is isolated and ignorant of the ‘truth’.

If 5e polytheism is ‘true’, then the agnosticism of Eberron is simply an error, rather than a fundamental subjectivity. This possibility of polytheistic supremacism destroys the beauty of the Eberron setting in my eyes.

Of course, this ‘truth’ of polytheism would also continue the 5e policy of making polytheism ubiquitous and coercive.

We will see in the final official Eberron product whether the Eberron setting is truly free from the tyranny of 5e polytheism or not.

 

[Undrave]

Bards are more about words.

I see a ‘fashion designer’ as an Artificer subclass who focuses on magical clothing (and armor).

I dunno, fashion is just a different type of artistic expression and has its own lore and History to explore... but I think you're point on the Artificer makes a lot of sense too. I guess it just depends on how you want the mechanics to align? I'm not familiar with the Artificer yet.

Ooh!

How about the 'clothing' related Bard is an Actor that dresses up and gets so good at it that they gain special bonus for interpreting different roles? Like, they dress up as a criminal to get proficiency in Thieves Tools and Stealth and stuff? They dress as a Priest and they get better at Religion and healing? That sort of crazy nonsense that could only work with magic?

Actor Bard Warforged = Cutie Honey

What worries me, is the unofficial discussions about how Eberron will officially relate to the 5e multiverse.

One possibility is that the 5e multiverse will be ‘true’, while Eberron is isolated and ignorant of the ‘truth’.

If 5e polytheism is ‘true’, then the agnosticism of Eberron is simply an error, rather than a fundamental subjectivity. This possibility of polytheistic supremacism destroys the beauty of the Eberron setting in my eyes.

Of course, this ‘truth’ of polytheism would also continue the 5e policy of making polytheism ubiquitous and coercive.

We will see in the final official Eberron product whether the Eberron setting is truly free from the tyranny of 5e polytheism or not.

Yeah I really don't see WHY Eberron needs to specifically being called out as being in the same Multiverse as everything else? Is it something that REALLY enhences the setting? Are people gonna be turned off the setting it if they can't transdimensionally relocate the Forgotten Realms character they've been playing for years?

Or why we need a multiverse in the first place outside of like Planescape or Spelljammer.

 

[Arnwolf666]

In formative D&D (Blackmoor-0e-1e), polytheism was one among many options, but not a default. Monotheism was also an option. For example, the illustration for the Cleric class in the 1e Players Handbook is a Christian priest. This is because D&D evolved as a medieval genre, including medieval religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, vestiges of European animism and polytheisms, traderoutes to African animisms, Hindu polytheism, Chinese Daoism, various Buddhisms, etcetera).

The gamut of possible religions also increased because of influences from various scifi authors.

The default religion of formative D&D is that the DM will invent a world. Any world is possible. Any religious systems are possible. Whatever the DM wants. The rest of the D&D books are merely tools that may or may not be useful for the DM. The default is that the DM will create a world for the players to explore.

This default, that the DM will invent a new universe, a completely new setting, is so vivid for gamers who have experienced the early years of formative D&D. And yet this default of the DM deciding seems so completely forgotten by gamers in later decades who wrongly think that ‘Greyhawk’ was the default setting.

The original Greyhawk city, a regional setting, derives from the campaign that Gygax himself was playing. But Gygax himself was shocked that there were any gamers who would want to play in the same setting that he himself was using rather than want to create their own settings.

In sum, the default religion is whatever the DM wants. This duty of each DM to invent a world, is the true default of formative D&D.

What you describe to me is what the game is all about. Published settings are just examples of what we should be doing. I respect the person that creates their own world and adventures way more that those that use published settings. That is what the games is about.

And it is not as hard as many think. Start small and expand as needed.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

What worries me, is the unofficial discussions about how Eberron will officially relate to the 5e multiverse.

One possibility is that the 5e multiverse will be ‘true’, while Eberron is isolated and ignorant of the ‘truth’.

If 5e polytheism is ‘true’, then the agnosticism of Eberron is simply an error, rather than a fundamental subjectivity. This possibility of polytheistic supremacism destroys the beauty of the Eberron setting in my eyes.

Of course, this ‘truth’ of polytheism would also continue the 5e policy of making polytheism ubiquitous and coercive.

We will see in the final official Eberron product whether the Eberron setting is truly free from the tyranny of 5e polytheism or not.

I think that its likely that the inhabitants of Eberron will just plain follow slightly different rules.
Remember there is no mechanical (and not much of any other type) distinction between arcane magic and divine magic in 5e, and I expect that there is even less in Eberron.
The people of Eberron are pretty solidly polytheistic: almost all beings of Eberron acknowledge the existence of the gods (sovereign host and dark six). However you don't have to worship them to be a cleric.
For example, you can be a cleric by allowing the souls ten thousand dead snakes to pour through you, or thinking that contemplating your navel will lead to better dreams, or that undead are paragons of virtue in the fight against the gods etc.
Or even, as mentioned above, by channelling the mysterious magical tattoo that has been in your family since they were herding dinosaurs on the plains.

I am pretty sure that Eberron will not be monotheistic however, if that is what you are taking "not polytheistic" to mean. Way too many gods, philosophies, cosmic forces or just plain faith granting power.

 

[Yaarel]

I am pretty sure that Eberron will not be monotheistic however, if that is what you are taking "not polytheistic" to mean. Way too many gods, philosophies, cosmic forces or just plain faith granting power.

My hope is that the Eberron setting will be agnostic.

Fundamentally subjective in ESSENCE.



In addition to polytheistic religious systems, Eberron also includes animistic religious systems (ancestor worship of the elves, and cult of the blood of vol). Technically, the Silver Flame is probably better described as monism, but can be characterized as monotheism.

But what makes Eberron Eberron is the uncertainty and subjectivity. Each of these cultural perspectives are equally valid and utilitarian.



To connect Eberron to the 5e multiverse would destroy the uncertainty, thus destroy the cultural pluralism, thus destroy the mystique of Eberron.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think that its likely that the inhabitants of Eberron will just plain follow slightly different rules.
Remember there is no mechanical (and not much of any other type) distinction between arcane magic and divine magic in 5e, and I expect that there is even less in Eberron.
The people of Eberron are pretty solidly polytheistic: almost all beings of Eberron acknowledge the existence of the gods (sovereign host and dark six). However you don't have to worship them to be a cleric.
For example, you can be a cleric by allowing the souls ten thousand dead snakes to pour through you, or thinking that contemplating your navel will lead to better dreams, or that undead are paragons of virtue in the fight against the gods etc.
Or even, as mentioned above, by channelling the mysterious magical tattoo that has been in your family since they were herding dinosaurs on the plains.

I am pretty sure that Eberron will not be monotheistic however, if that is what you are taking "not polytheistic" to mean. Way too many gods, philosophies, cosmic forces or just plain faith granting power.

There are multiple groups that don’t believe the sovereigns or dark six exist as anything more than cultural archetypes, in canon Eberron.