Archivist - long live the wizard, the wizard is dead.

[Haffrung Helleyes]

I think it's balanced

And I love this class.

Sure, access to Paladin/Rgr/Druid spells as cleric spells of the same level is powerful. But this class gives up a lot for that.

Remember, he's still expected to be the party healer. He gives up the ability to be a secondary combatant (with his poor BAB, HD, etc). He gives up automatic access to the entire cleric list (this is a big deal!) . He gives up domains. He gives up turning ability.

I think it's clear that the 'make a divine version of an arcane spell on a scroll' gambit is an abuse that shouldn't be allowed. Otherwise, I'd gladly allow this class in a campaign I ran.

And yeah, he is 'Rupert Giles, D&D character'. And I love that.

Really, I would be more worried about it being underpowered.

Ken

 

[Felix]

Spell lists are balanced within themselves, not between multiple lists.

Ditto.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I think it all comes down to how the DM runs their game. If they are the type of DM that says, "Yeah, you can find any spell you want as long as you pay the cost" then the class is open to abuse. However, all the games I have DMed or played in (bar one) have DMs that "keep it real".

Realistically, how many Druids scribe scrolls? If you have a Kinko Druid Spell Megaplex with 3 hours free parking in your game, then I suppose it's easy but in all the games I have had experience in, I have not seen a Druid scribe a single scroll.

As for Domain spells, fine if it's the church that you belong to or one of a fraternal or maternal faith, but I don't see churches of opposing faiths lining up to hand you their domain spells on a scroll except with a sizeable donation/extortive payment.

Natural roleplaying and commonsense should define reasonable limits for this. When done this way, that Miasma spell you got from that crazy druid becomes very special indeed.

However, I think the biggest deficiency the class has compared to your run-of-the-mill cleric is lack of spontaneous casting. This is what makes it hard for an archivist to choose their spells. As such, I see them as a suitable class that should be a lot of fun - without raining on the wizard's or cleric's parade.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Saeviomagy]

However, I think the biggest deficiency the class has compared to your run-of-the-mill cleric is lack of spontaneous casting. This is what makes it hard for an archivist to choose their spells. As such, I see them as a suitable class that should be a lot of fun - without raining on the wizard's or cleric's parade.

The fact that they don't automatically know the cure series of spells gives them a lot of leeway to simply not ever learn them, and be able to avoid the role of party bandaid.

The rest of your arguments are that role-playing and a restrictive DM will fix the problems. Yeah, like that's an excuse for bad rules.

I agree that the idea of the class is great. Personally I think the execution is... stupid and flawed. Mainly because I don't believe for a second that the cleric list is that much less powerful than the wizard list that it justifies what this class gets (better saves, more feats, more special abilities, more hitpoints). The combination of any divine list in the game is certainly no less powerful.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

The fact that they don't automatically know the cure series of spells gives them a lot of leeway to simply not ever learn them, and be able to avoid the role of party bandaid.

The rest of your arguments are that role-playing and a restrictive DM will fix the problems. Yeah, like that's an excuse for bad rules.

I can see your point here with bad rules - rules should be foolproof, regardless of who uses them. However, the situation I mentioned means it most likely will not be an issue in certain games but it would in others. I was just pointing this out as it had not been mentioned. I was not really looking for an argument on the matter.

I agree that the idea of the class is great. Personally I think the execution is... stupid and flawed. Mainly because I don't believe for a second that the cleric list is that much less powerful than the wizard list that it justifies what this class gets (better saves, more feats, more special abilities, more hitpoints). The combination of any divine list in the game is certainly no less powerful.

The Cleric list is more powerful than the wizard's in terms of undead. Aside from this though, I think the balance is still in favour of the wizard (although it is counterbalanced once more by the cleric instantly getting access to all spells of a new level while the wizard has to spend time working up his or her list).

The possible inclusion of the Druid list however is the crux of the matter. Left unchecked (go see the Kinko's Druid Spell Megaplex with 3 hours free parking style), then the archivist most likely is right up there with the cleric, wizard and druid. However, in "real" game terms, I can see its power just slightly behind those three. Obviously, this is just my opinion. If I ever to get to play an archivist, I think I'd have a more first hand and useful experience to relate.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise