Are crit only weapon abilities worth it?

[Stalker0]

I also don't like how the burst weapons favor 19-20 crit ranges or better over the 20/x3 ranges.

Now of course your about to saying but the x3 does more damage. Thing is I'm already doing x3 with my axe. When you slap on the burst damage, what normally happens is overkill. You wind up killing the monster without even needing the burst, which results in a "waste" of damage.

On a x2 however, the damage can often turn a damaging blow into a fatal one, or it can just be another few points off the hp. In other words, x2 burst weapons are more efficient with their damage.

 

[frankthedm]

Back when keen and improved crit [feat] stacked, bursty 18-20 crit weapons were good enough at what they did.

I never liked the idea of a 12-20 threat though, so i am glad they are gone.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Back when keen and improved crit [feat] stacked, bursty 18-20 crit weapons were good enough at what they did.

Somewhat resurrecting the dead here but I wonder if this is so? I'll compare a stacking keen/imp crit +1 keen flaming burst scimitar with a imp crit +4 warhammer. Both hit 50% of the time as based on the +1 flaming burst.

****

Layout is the following: A = P{D[1+Pc(Mc-1)] + Db}
For bonus critical dice I insert: +Bd[Pc(Mc-1)] after the Db & before the closing }

where
A = average damage per attack
P = Probability to hit, as a fraction
D = average weapon damage plus Str, Magic, etc
Pc = Probability to Threaten, as a fraction
Mc= Critical Multiplier
Db = Bonus Damage dice that are not multiplied by a confirmed critical
Bd = Bonus die average damage that only occurs on confirmed criticals

****

+1 keen flaming burst scimitar
6.25 = 0.50{4.5[1+0.45(2-1)] +3.5 +5.5[0.45(2-1)]}

+4 warhammer
6.63 = 0.65{8.5[1+0.1(3-1)]}

I might just make that scimitar drop keen and increase to +2 enhancement:

+2 flaming burst scimitar
6.765 = 0.55{5.5[1+0.30(2-1)] +3.5 +5.5[0.30(2-1)]}

Keen doesn't seem to be of much value here until a godly average damage is attained where the extra 15% beats both the 5% to hit and extra 1 point of damage. Frankly the stack does not even seem to be an optimal powerplay, it's much better to go energy & enhancement. Heck, I'd ditch the burst part as well.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Of course, the Holy effect only applies against Evil opponents. So that's not entirely a fair comparison.

Well, except that in the campaigns I've played in or run evil opponents outnumber other foes that you want to hurt by 10 to 1 or more - holy comes into play lots and lots. Far more than anarchic or axiomatic and unholy, naturally.

Similarly I play in a campaign where 80% of our foes have been human. The ranger has a human bane bow which is a steal at only +1 equivalent pricing in those circumstances!

Fact is though, I'd be willing to bet that in -most- D&D campaigns the vast majority of foes that you fight are evil (because it isn't just [evil] is it, it is any old evil) so holy damage comes into play most of the time. Thus it is a worthwhile comparison IMO. Also why I didn't use Anarchic as a comparison, since that wouldn't be worthwhile

 

[Plane Sailing]

In case you think that holy really is a poor thing to check against, then compare flaming burst with flaming shocking weapons. Same cost, same maths as above. In the non-energy resistant cases the flaming shocking gets an average of +7 damage per attack, the flaming burst gets +4.05, so still mechanically far less efficient.

 

[fafhrd]

Unless you're fighting fiends or other critters with multiple energy resistances, then meh.

 

[Nail]

Not that there's dispute on this thread, but: Holy is better that energy burst, if only for the energy resistances out there. Demons may be immune to electricity, for example, but they ain't immune to divine power!

 

[Joshua Randall]

What about the coolness factor? How much of a plus equivalent is that? Because +1 flaming burst morningstar just rolls off my tongue so pleasingly.

 

[fafhrd]

Not that there's dispute on this thread, but: Holy is better that energy burst, if only for the energy resistances out there. Demons may be immune to electricity, for example, but they ain't immune to divine power!

I think this is something that is very dependant on campaign details. While fiends might fear the holy, a purple worm won't.

 

[Nail]

I think this is something that is very dependant on campaign details. While fiends might fear the holy, a purple worm won't.

And how many puprple worms will you face? In the MM, slightly over half of the monsters are evil. It's just question of probability........mostly.