Are fighters that specialize in spiked chain viable/survivable at most/all levels?

[Zimbel]

Sketical

I don't think that +5/+5 is insignificant for a PC who has the magic items of a LV 3 PC. That's roughly like saying that a +2 weapon, a +4 belt of giant Strength, and a bonus feat (Weapon Focus) is insignificant (This gives essentially the same bonuses to hit and damage as the +5/+5, and the weapon and belt alone cost over 24,000).

 

[Oates]

The guisarme would have been at least quasi-realistic. Before this test I just thought that the spiked chain was dumb in a fantasy setting, after I knew that it was completely dumb. The fact that it has reach and can strike adjacent foes as a base makes it broken....coupled with the bonus to disarm and when used in tandem with certain feats (improved trip/improved disarm) makes it outrageous. Most DMs I know do not allow it in campaigns. The sugesstions of the oriental flavor chain weapons make more sense to me. nevertheless IMHO I feel the chain is broken.

 

[Storm Raven]

The guisarme would have been at least quasi-realistic. Before this test I just thought that the spiked chain was dumb in a fantasy setting, after I knew that it was completely dumb. The fact that it has reach and can strike adjacent foes as a base makes it broken....coupled with the bonus to disarm and when used in tandem with certain feats (improved trip/improved disarm) makes it outrageous. Most DMs I know do not allow it in campaigns. The sugesstions of the oriental flavor chain weapons make more sense to me. nevertheless IMHO I feel the chain is broken.

And you have based your opinion on a test in which the one significant drawback of the chain (it's damage dealing potential) was essentially nullified by the use of a one-shot magic item intended to be used in a single encounter to "teach the players a lesson".

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[Armadon63]

A munchkin spike chain guy would be a human fighter2/Psychic warrior the rest. Take the powers expansion, animal affinity and keen edge. Then take feats for whirlwind attack. when you hit level 7 psychic warrior you can hit everything in a 40 foot radius when expanded.

 

[Scion]

A munchkin spike chain guy would be a human fighter2/Psychic warrior the rest. Take the powers expansion, animal affinity and keen edge. Then take feats for whirlwind attack. when you hit level 7 psychic warrior you can hit everything in a 40 foot radius when expanded.

Wow.. that that guy would need 5 good stats to make use of the weapon and his class.


As for the example earlier about the party and its 'lesson' I am not sure what it proves. A few good rolls with a massively powerful weapon for your level can turn the tide in a number of different situations. Especially if the other party has a few bad rolls.

Even with good rolls and the other party doing dumb things it is still unlikely for the smaller, lower level party to win. I'd be interested in seeing what all of the dice rolls were and what sort of tactics were used. The opposing cleric casting a simple prayer spell would be incredibly devastating, or a summon monster 3 to further outnumber their foes....

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Well, remember. When expanded, any weapon with reach is serious business. A glaive or ranseur weilding character can do some hurting when elarged, too. I know, I know - not as much because they can't attack adjacent squares. I get that part. But to me it seems like an unfair argument to talk about a standard spiked chain under the influence of a magical effect. It isn't the spiked chain's fault it was enlarged.

In the same argument, I doubt I'll ever hear how a spiked chain weilding opponent who is reduced is at an unfair advantage! But yet, you have to look at both sides of the coin. If you are going to talk about enlarging creatures, you have to look at what all the weapons do when enlarged and compare them. Then, do the same for reduced ones....

 

[Oates]

Even with good rolls and the other party doing dumb things it is still unlikely for the smaller, lower level party to win. I'd be interested in seeing what all of the dice rolls were and what sort of tactics were used. The opposing cleric casting a simple prayer spell would be incredibly devastating, or a summon monster 3 to further outnumber their foes....

If the other party had done those things, the battle would have been different....The chain fighter only struck to trip and disarm...had a pitiful strength (10-11).

As to it being only one test in a horrific environment...I agree. It was a dumb thing done at the spur of the moment for a friend (the DM). The true benefit was that the young players learned to use their character's strengths to aid the party, i.e. the priest casting prayer, other buff spells being cast. party vs party can sometimes be a good test of party cohesivness and ability (closed experimentation has some benefits)

 

[IcyCool]

If the other party had done those things, the battle would have been different....The chain fighter only struck to trip and disarm...had a pitiful strength (10-11).

Wait, the chain fighter had only a 10-11 strength and yet he was repeatedly tripping the characters? How? With harsh language? How was he not getting counter-tripped (or having to drop his chain to avoid said counter)?

 

[The Persian]

Wait, the chain fighter had only a 10-11 strength and yet he was repeatedly tripping the characters? How? With harsh language? How was he not getting counter-tripped (or having to drop his chain to avoid said counter)?

Quoting Aliens gets you in my cool book

 

[Some_call_me_Tim]

How was he not getting counter-tripped (or having to drop his chain to avoid said counter)?

I think the problem with perception of the spiked chain wielder is they are given benefits they were never supposed to have and weaknesses are being ignored.

You can't trip a character who is getting up from prone with AoO he provokes [see FAQ p. 33]

If you do not succeed on tripping the target, the target can react and trip you or at least force you to drop your weapon.

I've seen both of these situations being mishandled in games, allow continuous re-trips and not allowing reactive trips.

If these limitations are enforced the spiked chain loses effectiveness. If they are, the build is a bit weak in my opinion for the amount of feats required. Mostly I see it as needlessly drawing out combat, because in the long run it is little more effective than bashing away with a sword.