Are gamers really that pathetic?

[Thalia]

I can't really speak for japanese culture, and I invite someone more competent than me to speak about it, but I don't think that in Japan rpgfans are seen any worse than the common otaku.

This is true, as far as P&P RPGs are concerned. MMORPGs are a different matter entirely.

But to clarify: the word "otaku" is a negative, and quite insulting word in Japan. I myself live in Japan and will happily tell people in a social setting that "I am an Otaku"; but it comes across (I think) as self-deprecating and slightly ironic humor -- much as saying "I am a Geek/Dweeb/Nerd" would in North America. I would certainly never call someone else an "otaku" (except the people I game with and some other close friends, and even then only in jest.)

The stereotypical image associated with "otaku" in Japan is not far from the "hikkikomori". That is, unwashed, smelly, socially inept introvert, often connected in the sensationalist press with stalkers, mass murderers, and other urban monsters.

Re: the stalkers in Kon Satoshi's "Perfect Blue" or Kitano Takeshi's "Dolls."

sorry for the tangential veer ----->

 

[fanboy2000]

I have to wonder if the word nerd or dork is realy insulting today. There are nerds out there richerer than any sports star or team owner.

For example Kobe Bryant makes about 15 Million a year, Bill Gates is worth 52 billion. Gee, who would you rather be? This actually reminds me of a mini-series I saw on PBS once. (Back when people watched PBS for documenturies rather than the Discovery Channel or the History Channel.) Microsoft used to be in the business of writing computer languages, and IBM originally came to them because they wanted to include BASIC with the OS they were going to use, CP/M. When IBM first approched Gates he was at some kind of coding convention, and was badly in need of a shower. (The stigma used to be attached to programers too, I guess they haven't realized they need to be over taken with alterintive and anti-social lifestyles yet.)

Dork Tower has a substantial non-gaming readership. When I sign up for a new screen name on websites, fanboy is often already taken. Obviously some people think words like dork, nerd, and fanboy are neutral now.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't get my values from TV or the movies. I know gaming doesn't have the stigma it once had because of the people around me, I've given plenty examples of that.

 

[Incenjucar]

1) Nerd means "You are smart and will most likely have a large amount of money"

2) Dork means, er, Moby's.. er... ahem.

Yeah, I can handle being called those.

Someone calls you a dork, you accuse them of peeping in on you while you shower, then wink at the nearest female.

If you, yourself, are female, nobody will ever mess with you again if you do this.

 

[Turanil]

I've heard from a European friend that D&D isn't as big in Europe as it is in North America. Or at least there are other rpgs that are more popular. Over here, it seems to be D&D that gets the big bullseye painted on it.

True. RPGs are less known and less popular in Europe (at least in France) than in the US.

 

[maddman75]

This much I understand. I am interested why is it that way in Anglosaxon culture, and if you feel compelled to get out because of peer pressure or because you actually feel uncomfortable.

Personally, it was my own discomfort. I moved back in after my divorce, at about 26 or so. I stayed in school and finished a few months later. Since I was done with school and had a decent job I really wanted to get out on my own. My parents were great, and I know I can always go back if I need to. But you feel like you're not a real independant person, making your way in the world, living with your parents at that late age.

Or as a wise man once said, you reach a point where you either move on, or just buy a Klingon costume and go with it.

 

[Nisarg]

These are not the same thing. In order for an RPG to not be presented in a negative light does not require a gamer to not be presented in a negative light.

Edit- And FoxTrot makes fun of everyone of its characters, so the poking of fun at the Ubergeek really isn't as negative a comment as you make out.

Um.. really, if "Jason the really nerdy kid from the Foxtrot comic" is the closest you can get to non-insulting, its time to fold the hand and cash in the chips.

Nisarg

P.S. also, he's one of those cleverly designed characters in that nerds will see him in an almost kind-of-cool light, because he reminds them so much of how they were at that age, while the rest of the general public will just see the character of Jason as a loser.

 

[Nisarg]

1) Nerd means "You are smart and will most likely have a large amount of money"

2) Dork means, er, Moby's.. er... ahem.

Yeah, I can handle being called those.

Someone calls you a dork, you accuse them of peeping in on you while you shower, then wink at the nearest female.

If you, yourself, are female, nobody will ever mess with you again if you do this.

Wow, this sounds like advice someone's mom would give; "don't worry if they call you nerd, honey, just tell them your mom said nerd means cool!".

Yea.. that won't get your head dunked in a toilet...

And, for the record, a tiny percentage of nerds will, due to some invention or innovation, get astoundingly rich.
The vast vast majority will not, because any career ambitions they may have will be stymied by a lack of social graces. In this culture the guy with 18 Cha is far more likely to end up making millions than the guy with 18 Int.
Those who "don't fit in" will have a lot of trouble being able to play well with others in the business world, will not be able to interact with their superiors well, will not be able to lead their inferiors well, and no matter how smart they might be will not get very far.

Like I'd said before in the thread, one of the symptoms of the socially handicapped gamer is a chronic inability to keep even the most menial of jobs. In my old gaming group in Canada (average age of about 26-27) there were plenty of times when I was the only one of two out of seven people who had a regular job, and the only other guy who did had been a McDonald's employee for the past 7 years (without ever making manager, though he constantly claimed he was "about to get that promotion"); of the rest some were just plain unemployed, some were chronic students, one was in a prolonged process of suing his old place of work for a fraudulent claim while making zero effort to look for new work, and a few were the type that would get a minimum-wage job they thought was "cool" until a few weeks later it got "boring" and they got fired, usually for missing shifts. These guys were all "nerds", and I'd bet they all had well above-average intelligence if one was to test them. And yet.. no big million-dollar futures for them.

The guy who can play well with others is the one who will make the big bucks, more often than the anti-social geek.

Nisarg

 

[drothgery]

Wow, this sounds like advice someone's mom would give; "don't worry if they call you nerd, honey, just tell them your mom said nerd means cool!".

Yea.. that won't get your head dunked in a toilet...

And, for the record, a tiny percentage of nerds will, due to some invention or innovation, get astoundingly rich.
The vast vast majority will not, because any career ambitions they may have will be stymied by a lack of social graces. In this culture the guy with 18 Cha is far more likely to end up making millions than the guy with 18 Int.

Bah. You're conflating "shy, introverted, nerdy guy" with "lazy, poor personal hygeine nerdy guy". The former (which is where I'd categorize myself) is unlikely to make millions, but has a pretty good chance of doing quite well in a technical field.

 

[Incenjucar]

Wow, this sounds like advice someone's mom would give; "don't worry if they call you nerd, honey, just tell them your mom said nerd means cool!".

Yea.. that won't get your head dunked in a toilet...

Honestly, nobody was ever stupid enough to try and dunk me in a toilet, though I did have a death threat in middle school. You do realize that not all nerds are whimps, right?

And, for the record, a tiny percentage of nerds will, due to some invention or innovation, get astoundingly rich.
The vast vast majority will not, because any career ambitions they may have will be stymied by a lack of social graces. In this culture the guy with 18 Cha is far more likely to end up making millions than the guy with 18 Int.

We're not talking millions, we're talking upper middle class or otherwise very comfortable compared to, say, the majority of football players. Like all those guys helping companies with their computers because technophobes can't figure'em out on their own. There's a much larger space in the world for engineers, computer nerds, and even librarians than there are places for the vast majority of 'jocks' who don't get in to proffessional sports after all those years of throwing footballs, and the ones who end up destroying their bodies in the attempt and end up crippling themselves so they couldn't play anyways.

Those who "don't fit in" will have a lot of trouble being able to play well with others in the business world, will not be able to interact with their superiors well, will not be able to lead their inferiors well, and no matter how smart they might be will not get very far.

You do realize that not every nerd is afraid to socialize, right? Nerds are just eccentric smart people. They aren't all 'cat piss men'.

Like I'd said before in the thread, one of the symptoms of the socially handicapped gamer is a chronic inability to keep even the most menial of jobs.

Which is not the vast majority of nerddom.

In my old gaming group in Canada (average age of about 26-27) there were plenty of times when I was the only one of two out of seven people who had a regular job, and the only other guy who did had been a McDonald's employee for the past 7 years (without ever making manager, though he constantly claimed he was "about to get that promotion"); of the rest some were just plain unemployed, some were chronic students, one was in a prolonged process of suing his old place of work for a fraudulent claim while making zero effort to look for new work, and a few were the type that would get a minimum-wage job they thought was "cool" until a few weeks later it got "boring" and they got fired, usually for missing shifts. These guys were all "nerds", and I'd bet they all had well above-average intelligence if one was to test them. And yet.. no big million-dollar futures for them.

Honestly, they sound like the Mensa folk I've dealt with (minus wanting to grope animals -- I hope). But they're hardly the majority of nerds. You just ran in to a bad batch of them. Other nerds include accountants, scientists, engineers, architects, bankers... the list goes on.

The guy who can play well with others is the one who will make the big bucks, more often than the anti-social geek.

Nisarg

Anti-social geeks are nerds now?

I think you have your definitions mixed.

I dunno, maybe my country and coast upbringing gives me a different view than the urban or suburban set, but the only issue I've really seen with nerds is those that let the label and stereotype get to them.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Wow, this sounds like advice someone's mom would give; "don't worry if they call you nerd, honey, just tell them your mom said nerd means cool!".

Yea.. that won't get your head dunked in a toilet...

And, for the record, a tiny percentage of nerds will, due to some invention or innovation, get astoundingly rich.
The vast vast majority will not, because any career ambitions they may have will be stymied by a lack of social graces. In this culture the guy with 18 Cha is far more likely to end up making millions than the guy with 18 Int.
Those who "don't fit in" will have a lot of trouble being able to play well with others in the business world, will not be able to interact with their superiors well, will not be able to lead their inferiors well, and no matter how smart they might be will not get very far.

Like I'd said before in the thread, one of the symptoms of the socially handicapped gamer is a chronic inability to keep even the most menial of jobs. In my old gaming group in Canada (average age of about 26-27) there were plenty of times when I was the only one of two out of seven people who had a regular job, and the only other guy who did had been a McDonald's employee for the past 7 years (without ever making manager, though he constantly claimed he was "about to get that promotion"); of the rest some were just plain unemployed, some were chronic students, one was in a prolonged process of suing his old place of work for a fraudulent claim while making zero effort to look for new work, and a few were the type that would get a minimum-wage job they thought was "cool" until a few weeks later it got "boring" and they got fired, usually for missing shifts. These guys were all "nerds", and I'd bet they all had well above-average intelligence if one was to test them. And yet.. no big million-dollar futures for them.

The guy who can play well with others is the one who will make the big bucks, more often than the anti-social geek.

Nisarg

Don't forget about all the jocks and charismatic people who work at gas stations and supermarkets for the rest of their lives.

Honestly people a very small percent of the population gets rich. You can find losers anywhere who don't give 2 *#@$ about contributing to society.
I knew charismatic people at my school who don't work a day in their lives and just have *#@$ handed to them by their parents.

All of the people who I game with work (or currently aren't working because they have started to work on getting higher education), most have had a girl friend with in the past six months.