Are Giants Overpowered?

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Usually summoning is the best way to distract them long enough for a mass-fly to be fired off.

Does that actually work against stone giants? They can throw rocks pretty far and pretty hard, while summoning is a full-round action.

(And don't make me talk about mass fly. Please. )

 

[Darklone]

I'm not sure what you mean by that one (apparently the AC needs to be both higher and lower), but it's something you'd have to take up with Monte Cook, Skip Williams, et. al. I'm just following the rules for what the average NPC Fighter CR 12 or 13 is equipped with.

I see... I'm used to look at PCs I guess.

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

Does that actually work against stone giants? They can throw rocks pretty far and pretty hard, while summoning is a full-round action.

(And don't make me talk about mass fly. Please. )

Whatever happened to the wonderful world of cover when fighting giants ?

And giants are really somewhat too easy - IMC we never experienced much of a problem fighting giants - Hill Giants and Frost Giants prooved rather too easy, even for their normal CR ( the 7th level party - five characters - hacked themselves right through a half a dozen of Hill Giants, Short range frontal fight without much fuss ) , and that is in a campaign without the omnipresent "Fly" spell (It is concentration and personal IMC ). Ranged Touch attacks , Willpower saves, Multi-target reflex based attack spells, Feints and Sneak attacks....
Wasn't a pretty sight - they simply are too soft skinned when faced with multiple melee attackers, too.

Giants are stylish in an old-fashioned way, and very much add to a settings athmosphere - but as foils for a party, they have only very specialised use (or need some buffing up with equipment, special giant feats and some spellcasting of their own )

 

[Darklone]

Well, if giants are too easy in melee, give them this Monster Manual feats

Where is the good old Large and in Charge?

I have to admit though that 3.5 with Enlarge Person was the big melee equalizer for the PCs, readily available and the giants reach was nullified. Now they can only hit the PCs very hard and often. Works too.

AWESOME BLOW [GENERAL, FIGHTER]
Prerequisites: Str 25, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, size Large or larger.
Benefit: As a standard action, the creature may choose to subtract 4 from its melee attack roll and deliver an awesome blow. If the creature hits a corporeal opponent smaller than itself with an awesome blow, its opponent must succeed on a Reflex save (DC = damage dealt) or be knocked flying 10 feet in a direction of the attacking creature’s choice and fall prone. The attacking creature can only push the opponent in a straight line, and the opponent can’t move closer to the attacking creature than the square it started in. If an obstacle prevents the completion of the opponent’s move, the opponent and the obstacle each take 1d6 points of damage, and the opponent stops in the space adjacent to the obstacle.

 

[Hypersmurf]

AWESOME BLOW [GENERAL, FIGHTER]
If the creature hits a corporeal opponent smaller than itself with an awesome blow, its opponent must succeed on a Reflex save (DC = damage dealt) or be knocked flying 10 feet in a direction of the attacking creature’s choice and fall prone.

And don't forget to take your AoO when they leave your threatened square...

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

And don't forget to take your AoO when they leave your threatened square...

-Hyp.

But don't waste it on a trip attempt

Best thing is to shoot the PC past some buddy at the teams cleric

Edit: too bad it's only 10 ft.

 

[Shin Okada]

Doesn't CR level relate to being evenly matched with a PARTY of PC's of that level? I think CR was created with the assumption there was a Fighter, Cleric, Arcane Caster, etc.

I am second to this way of thinking. Monster CR are assuming that PC meets only 1 of them, or just several number of the same things. On the other hand, NPCs are supposed to be a member of relatively well-balanced party. And they are assumed to use their abilities and items cleverly.

Here is a tricky part. You DMs must be very careful when combining simple brute monsters with NPC spell casters. When playing "Against the Giants" modules in 3e, my friend DM has thrown in some evil clerics as support (in the campaign PCs were fighting against an evil knightly order). He has replaced some of the giants with human NPC clerics. Though, in calculation, EL of the each encounters were the same, actual encounter had become really tough ones. So, when you don't use monsters in such different way, you must consider taking it as a "tougher encounter" and adjust EL. That is my two cents.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Does that actually work against stone giants? They can throw rocks pretty far and pretty hard, while summoning is a full-round action.

It does if the Gnome cleric hides underneath his wagon or a dead horse while summoning. 9/10 cover (3.0) and small is a decent spot check, especially when three guys with cloaks of the arachnid are running up the walls towards you and two other folks are firing arrows. (MC has 6PCs + 3cohorts, oy!)

It helps the party cleric likes to summon Xorn, excellent hit&run critters in rocky terrain.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

In one of our adventures the GM was using a small squad of giants to herd us into a cave and into a portal.

We didn't want to go in the cave, so resisted the herding as all difficult PCs are prone to do.

My mage hid himself under a rock/dead body and cast Magic Jar. I could have single handedly taken out the entire squad of giants out myself playing smartly, but instead of further casting spells and whatnot I just wanted to get my currently posessed body beat down by the other giants so I could float out of the body and take over another one. With their horrible Will saves, they have next to NO chance to prevent it, and thus one mage with one spell can totally mow over 10+ giants by him/herself.

Granted, they are big and beefy, but as long as you don't go toe-to-toe they are next to worthless.

DS

 

[dcollins]

Granted, they are big and beefy, but as long as you don't go toe-to-toe they are next to worthless.

Let me ask this: Do you agree that a stone giant is about as powerful as a 12th-level NPC Fighter? Do you think they should have the same CR? If so, what would it be?