D&D 5E Are HotDQ Fights Too Deadly?

[sunrisekid]

I would like to hear what other DMs are doing for the many overpowered encounters in HotDQ.

I have gone through the adventure and checked the XP calculations for difficult fights. For the expected character levels and number (four is expected) it is my opinion that most of the RAW combat encounters are more than “deadly”.

For example, the Skykeep courtyard has 6 ogres and two stone golems during the day; at night add a vampire to the mix. Four or five 7th level characters would get wiped out, according to the XP difficulty chart. The vampire alone is sufficient to wipe out the same party, according to the XP difficulty chart, especially given immunity to non-magic weapons and the derth of magic weapons available in the adventure. Another example, the roper in the hatchery. That alone could waste the party, let alone having it work with the kobolds. (In my game I simply didn’t include it.)

I’ve gone through the rest of the book and adjusted the fights to accommodate my group, referencing the calculated XP according to the DMG. Is anyone else is doing this? Maybe I’m underestimating fights at that level, but most fights so far have seen a near-death, from level 1 through level 3.

Disclaimer: I agree with the concept that not every fight will be balanced, and that players should be encouraged to try alternate means (roleplaying, stealth, etc). I’m not adverse to TPKs but it’s trickier to maintain plot consistency if new, level-appropriate characters are being reintroduced each session.

 

[Tommy Brownell]

In both the above cases, my players worked around it. They flew to the castle waving a Cult of the Dragon banner, and convinced the less than intelligent ogres that they were cult operatives. As soon as they figured out the Cloud Giant had no respect for the Cult, fighting Ogres was no longer a problem...they were fighting alongside ogres.

The Roper was a "oh crap" in which they used the cover of magical darkness to run for their lives.

On the other hand, the two PCs that took down Bog Luck (I used a Hobgoblin Warlord, think...CR 6, they were level 5) got ripped apart by Borngray and his men (Borngray is CR 3). Our Barbarian also took out the Otyugh in Episode 6 in a one on one fight. She got hurt, but not terribly so (thanks in part to damage resistance from Rage.)

So far, we've lost one PC (killed by Borngray in Episode 6) and one NPC ally has died (killed by a Shambling Mound, also in Episode 6).

(Fixed a couple of typos.)

 

[sunrisekid]

In both the above cases, my players worked around it. The few to the castle waving a Cult of the Dragon banner, and convinced the less than intelligent ogres that they were cult operatives. As soon as they figured out the Cloud Giant had no respect for the Cult, fighting Ogres was no longer a problem...they were fighting alongside ogres.

This is how I read the adventure sequence taking place, and hoping this is what my players will figure out to do on their own.

I’m pretty good at improvising, so not worried about handling the unexpected from players.

After reading ahead and paying closer attention to the *possible* combats awaiting the characters, it appears that most of the fights are overwhelming. However, based on your descriptions, I may leave things as they are and just see how the players handle things as they level up, and not worry so much.

 

[DaveDash]

I'm a player in this campaign. We've been fine so far, but we make a point at picking our battles. Not every fight needs to be fought.

Also our DM doesn't use the milestone system and lets us level up when we've earned it. Made a huge difference in the beginning.

 

[ad_hoc]

Are fights too deadly? No, these aren't fights.

There are powerful creatures/NPCs in the adventure. I think it would ruin plot consistency if there wasn't.

PCs should encounter more powerful beings when they are low level and should encounter less powerful beings when they are high level.

Otherwise, what does being low or high level mean?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Just use 13th Age's escalation die!

 

[GameOgre]

It takes a skilled DMing hand to make this adventure workable with a 4 man party of the right levels. It's all well and good to say "This is the bad guy that is there doing stuff so deal with it". But when the adventure railroads the players into those fights it is just BAD DMing.

Many of the players of 3.5 and 4E set off on the 5E HOTDQ path with the wrong train of thought(encounters will be at least balanced so they stand a chance). This just isn't the case with a point buy 4 man party. Not unless the DM is skilled enough to both realize the deadly encounters contained in the adventure and works to alter either those encounters or the available actions of the party.

This is made worse by the VERY railroad nature of the adventure.

Classic D&D or 1E experienced players are on a much better footing here but the railroad suffers for it.

For instance my Classic D&D guys listened to my description of the horde and Dragon attacking the town and turned to me and said"Well bugger that! Mark a X on our map where this new ruin is going to be and we skedaddle back the other way".

See when players and their characters actually play the game with the real knowledge that encounters don't get made by some fair yardstick...they often don't act in the preset railroad fashion that HOTDQ sets before them.

You can't really have your cake and eat it to as far as word design goes.

Either you give the players and their characters a safety net (knowledge that no outrageous fights will happen) and set there little feet on the road you want them to take(often verse adversaries that seem unfair but secretly are not too hard) or don't give them that net, let them know that anything goes AND design adventures that allow for a wide range of player/character choices. Also be prepared for times when the party just says fook it and buggers off towards some random direction that they seem to think would be fun.

Instead what HOTDQ does is give them a narrow path to follow and punishing them for following it.

 

[The Green Hermit]

Just use 13th Age's escalation die!

What is this?

 

[GameOgre]

On the first round +0
Second round +1
Third Round +2
Fourth Round +3
Fifth Round +4
Sixth Round +5
Seventh Round +6

After the seventh round: Hold at +6,Decrease to one less every round after, Keep climbing up to whatever new high you want to use for truly epic shock and awe type fights.

The bonus counts to hit and damage. Mostly just for the players unless fighting boss's or Lieutenants.

This is a well liked (Storytelling)system from 13th age that many import into other games.