D&D General Are NPCs like PCs?

[Reynard]

You know that there is a difference between a monster and an NPC?

Is there?

 

[Hussar]

You know that there is a difference between a monster and an NPC?
Here we look not at the monsters, but at those at the end of the book. Appendice B: Nonplayer Characters. P342. All casters conforms to the casting table of their appropriate spell casting classes and level. The arch mage is an 18th level casters, has the casting table of an 18th full caster and even the HD. Same thing with the acolyte and all other casters. Why change that? There were no reasons to change this at all.

And yet, funnily enough, that ONLY applies to humans and demi-humans.

What if I wanted a, oh, I dunno, hobgoblin that could cast spells? What rules would I use then?

But, to answer your question, what is the difference between a monster and an NPC? Nothing. There is zero difference.

 

[Helldritch]

Osmosis FTW.

But you haven't answered the question.

Read the answer to Hussar

 

[Reynard]

Read the answer to Hussar

So "Because I like it this way." Cool. that's as good an answer as any, I suppose.

But it is still a nonsensical "rule" for only spellcasting to be required to conform to this idea.

 

[Helldritch]

And yet, funnily enough, that ONLY applies to humans and demi-humans.

What if I wanted a, oh, I dunno, hobgoblin that could cast spells? What rules would I use then?

But, to answer your question, what is the difference between a monster and an NPC? Nothing. There is zero difference.

To which I reply: Everything.
Recheck the Orc Eye of Gruumsh. 3rd level caster. Predictable and reliable. A bit more than what a PC can do, way more HP, but the caster thing? Completely in accord.
Need other examples? Fine. Drow priestess p.129. 10th level caster with a few other feature. The caster side conforms in every way to the caster side of PC.

Now for the monsters. The Solar? We have at will, 3/day and 1/day. No caster levels.
Pit Fiend? At will and 3/day.

Easy isn't it? Monsters vs NPCs.

Or hags?
Night hag: at will and 2/day. But if they are in a coven? Oooopsss 12th caster with all the same slots save for the cantrips (which is a shame imho) but still monster so...

For your hobgoblin...
VgtM: Hobgoblin Devastator. 7th level caster. Page 161. NPC race, PC treatment.

5ed method was: Easy to predict, easy to build, easy to replicate. Elegant in simplicity and fast in application and modification. With random powers and so on, not so easy now. What I will give you is that you can always reskin a monster/npc into something with a different appearance and name.

 

[Helldritch]

So "Because I like it this way." Cool. that's as good an answer as any, I suppose.

But it is still a nonsensical "rule" for only spellcasting to be required to conform to this idea.

Not really, read the above to Hussar again...

 

[Reynard]

Not really, read the above to Hussar again...

You keep saying that, but those responses all say the same thing: spellcasting is special.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Casters are especially annoying to make like PCs. Picking 20 spells for a chump that's not going to last 6 rounds? No thank you.

 

[Helldritch]

You keep saying that, but those responses all say the same thing: spellcasting is special.

Of course.
When DnD next started. WotC made us participate in the creation of 5ed. They collected data and that way of doing thing was rejected with a surprising majority.
They asked us what we wanted in 5ed.
They made us playtest ideas.
They made us answer their survey on what was good and what was not.
Did all my ideas passed on 5ed, of course not. Not everything was to the taste of the majority. But at least, what made it through the process was what the majority could agree upon. In here, humanoids conforms to humanoids. Not bad isn't it?

With this change in how foes are now build, they directly go against all the playtests we've been through. They go against all the play tests showed them, their collected data and the philosophy behind the DnD Next.

If they want to make a 6th edition with these changes, I will not mind at all. In fact, I would welcome them. It would be a new edition after all. But this is fifth edition. The edition that has been voted upon by thousands of players all around the globe. To change the philosophy that much is simply a treason. Period. It started with TCoE and now these.

If the developers are ready for the 6ed, then let them go! Make the 6ed and right now. But leave the 5ed as it is. This is the edition we wanted (or at least, what the majority of the time wanted, I happened to be among those).

But you know what? They will not release their 6ed because they are affraid that people will not follow. So they are slowly changing the 5ed to what they want (whatever that is). This throw back to 4ed is not what I/we (the surveyed) wanted. Make 6ed and be done with it, I say. We'll see how successful it will be.

 

[Reynard]

Of course.
When DnD next started. WotC made us participate in the creation of 5ed. They collected data and that way of doing thing was rejected with a surprising majority.
They asked us what we wanted in 5ed.
They made us playtest ideas.
They made us answer their survey on what was good and what was not.
Did all my ideas passed on 5ed, of course not. Not everything was to the taste of the majority. But at least, what made it through the process was what the majority could agree upon. In here, humanoids conforms to humanoids. Not bad isn't it?

With this change in how foes are now build, they directly go against all the playtests we've been through. They go against all the play tests showed them, their collected data and the philosophy behind the DnD Next.

If they want to make a 6th edition with these changes, I will not mind at all. In fact, I would welcome them. It would be a new edition after all. But this is fifth edition. The edition that has been voted upon by thousands of players all around the globe. To change the philosophy that much is simply a treason. Period. It started with TCoE and now these.

If the developers are ready for the 6ed, then let them go! Make the 6ed and right now. But leave the 5ed as it is. This is the edition we wanted (or at least, what the majority of the time wanted, I happened to be among those).

But you know what? They will not release their 6ed because they are affraid that people will not follow. So they are slowly changing the 5ed to what they want (whatever that is). This throw back to 4ed is not what I/we (the surveyed) wanted. Make 6ed and be done with it, I say. We'll see how successful it will be.

Pre-emptive edition war aside, and editions aside entirely, why do YOU think that spellcasting in particular should be the same between PCs and NPCs and (spellcasting) monsters?