D&D 4E Are powers samey?

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If you dislike paying attention to distinctions below a certain level sure but someone can point out those similarities below that same level existed but were package differently in other editions.

Feel free to point it out. It's not going to affect how we feel, though.

One can still discuss how those distinctions resulted in those similarities being presented side by side and being more obvious. Shrug discussing pure opinion is kind of less than useful unless you branch into hows and whys
The issue has been that so far in this thread, those similarities have been being used to attempt to club people over the head in the attempt to disprove their feelings.
 

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Even functionally identical ones like grab and strike being presented as one isolated power gets called a spell but split up is peachie keen.
Sure, but I think that's why most people admit that one of the weaknesses of 4e was how it presented and organized everything. People are fine digging through a giant spell list, but they aren't as fine with going through a level by level catalog for a class list of powers. I get why 4e did it, and I can see the strengths of that approach, but I can also see how that turned people off. 4e could have organized powers by source, and said, here is the list of tactics for the Martial power source, and just given the power list for each class.
 

It points out why... you feel.
It doesn't. It only points out similarities. Some of those will be reasons for why I feel how I do. Others will not. Similarity is not the deciding factor. It's a nebulous thing and attempting to find out exactly why is going be an exercise in futility.
 

In order for Grab and Strike to be dissimilar once you sort through the fact that it is packaged differently in 5e (a presentation difference) you can even soup it up with a feat. Now 4e provides way more of this and class features that modify more but 5e does some of the same. I do not feel that happens nearly nearly enough in 5e and the feats do not seem to do the work as well. And class features seem to run stand alone in 5e, why isn't the protection style written to work better with Sentinel and similarly the Cavalier class? This might be a side effect of feats being optional... but unlike using extra attack enhancing the everyman power which is elegant the other modifying elements are kludgy. The style feats modifying powers in 4e were presented very hard to find too a different form of not good.

Hmmm, do you think this design in 5e was perhaps done purposefully like that so as not to require the mastery of 3.x and their feat trees? It is often said you cannot make a poor character within 5e - perhaps it is these (using your terminology for ease) elements of kludginess that allow for that.
 

Hmmm, do you think this design in 5e was perhaps done purposefully like that so as not to require the mastery of 3.x and their feat trees? It is often said you cannot make a poor character within 5e - perhaps it is these (using your terminology for ease) elements of kludginess that allow for that.
The person who picks protection fighting style is a few levels layer almost definitely going to based on feel want the sentinel feat... but klang klang klang they work very poorly together.... I rewrote protection so that it would be more competitive with sentinel but I think there is a better rewrite so the one leads into the other.
I really think because feats are optional it happens and designers do not consider the above.
 

Hmmm, do you think this design in 5e was perhaps done purposefully like that so as not to require the mastery of 3.x and their feat trees? It is often said you cannot make a poor character within 5e - perhaps it is these (using your terminology for ease) elements of kludginess that allow for that.
Based upon statements that Mearls and Crawford have made about sub-systems, frex Inspiration, not every subsystem was designed with as equal care and attention in regards to its interaction with the base game as others. I suspect that Feats also likely fall into this category. I don't think that most people care too much because WotC delivered an absolutely solid base game with 5e.
 

I rewrote protection so that it would be more competitive with sentinel but I think there is a better rewrite so the one leads into the other.I really think because feats are optional it happens and designers do not consider the above.

The idea for writing it competitively was because you're not using feats right? Otherwise I would struggle to see why you would opt for that.
 

The idea for writing it competitively was because you're not using feats right? Otherwise I would struggle to see why you would opt for that.
but the feat is gained and presented well after you opt for the style. And the subclass is too.
 


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