Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Distinction by roles are a breath of Variety in comparison to damage damage is the only thing that matters
D&D 4E Are powers samey?
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Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Big bag of hit points monsters do not help add variety either.
Zardnaar
Legend
Follow that thought to it's conclusion.
Point blank all this minor stuff is irrelevant. The big problem is 4E is 4E and powers and sameyness is part of that.
Don Durito
Hero
Bob doesn't like managing daily resources. He stays away from spellcasters because they're a headache. Ever since the 80s he's played fighters, sometimes thieves if he wanted a challenge.
He sees 4E. "These classes are all the same" he says.
"No" say others "they're all different, there's a multitude of things you can do, you can be a barbarian that calls on primal spirits, or a warlock that makes pacts with eldritch being, or finally a fighter that's actually effective."
Bob sits down and plays a session. He has to manage daily resources and he doesn't like it. "Ugh" he says my Fighter is basically a wizard. Others argue with Bob and tell him all the ways they are different. But Bob doesn't care. He knows they are the same because they go into the same box. The box labelled "stuff that Bob doesn't want to have to do while playing D&D".
I don't see why this gets so overcomplicated.
He sees 4E. "These classes are all the same" he says.
"No" say others "they're all different, there's a multitude of things you can do, you can be a barbarian that calls on primal spirits, or a warlock that makes pacts with eldritch being, or finally a fighter that's actually effective."
Bob sits down and plays a session. He has to manage daily resources and he doesn't like it. "Ugh" he says my Fighter is basically a wizard. Others argue with Bob and tell him all the ways they are different. But Bob doesn't care. He knows they are the same because they go into the same box. The box labelled "stuff that Bob doesn't want to have to do while playing D&D".
I don't see why this gets so overcomplicated.
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FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
Interestingly - we could write up every class feature in 5e as a 4e presented power.
Barbarian Rage - Daily
Effect: Ability goes here
Barbarian Reckless Attack - At will
Attack (advantage) vs AC
You deal 1W damage
Effect: Enemies have advantage against you until your next turn
Action Surge - Encounter
You may take an additional action
2nd Wind - Encounter
Heals for 1d10+fighter level
Etc.
Barbarian Rage - Daily
Effect: Ability goes here
Barbarian Reckless Attack - At will
Attack (advantage) vs AC
You deal 1W damage
Effect: Enemies have advantage against you until your next turn
Action Surge - Encounter
You may take an additional action
2nd Wind - Encounter
Heals for 1d10+fighter level
Etc.
It's actually major.
Dungeons and Dragons typically only worked well in dungeons-like places and vs major monsters that acted like dragons.
If DMs attempted to play elsewhere or vs other things, the game slowly fell apart.
4e designed it's class system, its monster system, and it's powersystem so that everywhere was adungeon and every boss was a dragon and every character had the tools for both.
It did so be increasing class and monster sameyness while decreasing adventure sameyness. Power sameyness stayed about the same.
Zardnaar
Legend
You could also use the 4E engine to clone 3.5 or Basic. Sure you would strip stuff out and rewrite monsters but you could do it.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
A lack of variety ie sameness of resultant story ability is not really the problem is the only conclusion which is what the op is saying. (there is no exact opposite other than this isn't the one thing)
Choose between twin strike or grab and strike is the 4e analog of swapping out one of your extra attacks for a grab it is not functionally different in the fiction just a structural presentation. There is a bit of every single extra attack class can do it nearly as well and can also take a feat to be just as good. (The 4e brawling fighter has more features for supporting doing that better and more riders for making the grab part of a defenders function) without taking feats.
There is the comparison the fighter in 5e is less unique on every point.
Gladius Legis
Legend
I know typically the best encounter and daily powers for the 4e Fighter and Ranger were powers that let them make multiple attacks, because said multiple attacks were by far the most effective way to scale damage output.
So ... powers that let them do what ... they had been able to do as part of their standard level progressions in previous editions, and then again in 5e. Woo ...
Powers presented an illusion of choice in 4e.
So ... powers that let them do what ... they had been able to do as part of their standard level progressions in previous editions, and then again in 5e. Woo ...
Powers presented an illusion of choice in 4e.
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