Are the DMG, the MM, and/or minis necessary?

[eriktheguy]

You don't need a monster manual. Just a template of monster 'stats' for each level. A few template abilities (area attack, ranged attack, etc).
When I need a monster for my fight, I just think 'is it a brute, skirmisher, etc' and find a monster of that type of the level I want. The 'human guards' that my party fought that one time were hobgoblins, and the 'ogre' they killed was just an orc. They didn't notice.
You don't need the dungeon master guide. Experience from previous editions is fine.
The players handbook is most necessary to learn the rules. Once you have learned the rules, you don't need the PHB anymore, just access to the DDI character builder, and a few printed lists of commonly referenced information (conditions, etc).
If you are going for minimalist, then only a couple of d20s per player are needed dice wise. Use average damage (unless your players are clingy to old edition rules).

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I disagree with all those who say you don't need a DMG.

Okay, I suppose as an experienced 4th ed. DM who has a good grasp on how the math works, it isn't essential.

However, for someone who has never DMed 4th ed. before, while not absolutely essential, it is phenomenally helpful. Most important are the rules on how to design appropriately challenging encounters, and rules on how much treasure to give - both extremely useful.

I'm curious, though, why one would want to try playing with only a player's handbook? The price of all 3 starter books isn't THAT expensive, and certainly not if the whole group chips in.

Now, if you want to try the system out without springing for all the books, that's a bit different. In such a case, download one of the free adventures from the WotC website (there were 2 last time I checked) and run those. By the time you get to the end of those, you should have a pretty good idea whether this is something you want to play more of - at which point you can pick up the DMG and one of the monster manuals and try building some of your own adventures.

 

[Mirtek]

Why does the system discourage the PCs from fighting NPCs? How would this be sub-optimal?

If my questions seem ignorant, it's because I am 99% ignorant of 4th Edition D&D.

In 3.x PCs and monsters were build according to the same rules. A 3rd level orc fighter as a NPC-opponent was build just like the human fighter PC, just using an orc as base creature instead of a human.

In 4e PCs and monsters use completely different rules with a different math behind each build. A human fighter PC is build over three levels according the PHB, while the level 3 orc "fighter" is a complete creature in it's own right, was not build from a level 1 orc "fighter" onward and uses completely different rules than the PC (e.g. defenses, attack bonus, damage are completely divorced from from the NPC's actual equipment or ability scores).

Also the math behind PC gives them high damage and low hp, while the monsters get low damage and high hp.

If you build a monster according to the PC rules you'll put two high damage and low hp glass cannons against each other which won't end well in the long run.

 

[Dredly]

Read the quickstart guide that was posted and you'll be able to get through it, En World is an amazing source of info, use it for any questions you may have:

hint: if you type in your question in google like this: D&D 4e <question> EnWorld it will give you the results from these boards

You don't need Mini's, I use print outs of the minis from the WoTC website (I use excel and just flip one of the images so its the same mini touching the top of their heads) then I cut em out and fold them over


Additionally if you are on a very limited budget but have access to a tv or your players have laptops check out MapTools, it works GREAT for running sessions, but you need 2 laptops / PC's

then you don't even need dice

 

[Garthanos]

I disagree with all those who say you don't need a DMG.

Okay, I suppose as an experienced 4th ed. DM who has a good grasp on how the math works, it isn't essential.

However, for someone who has never DMed 4th ed. before, while not absolutely essential, it is phenomenally helpful. Most important are the rules on how to design appropriately challenging encounters, and rules on how much treasure to give - both extremely useful.

I'm curious, though, why one would want to try playing with only a player's handbook? The price of all 3 starter books isn't THAT expensive, and certainly not if the whole group chips in.

Now, if you want to try the system out without springing for all the books, that's a bit different. In such a case, download one of the free adventures from the WotC website (there were 2 last time I checked) and run those. By the time you get to the end of those, you should have a pretty good idea whether this is something you want to play more of - at which point you can pick up the DMG and one of the monster manuals and try building some of your own adventures.

I would like to claim I wrote the above post.... or atleast pretend
Additionally Character Builder and the Adventure Tools(has monster building tools) even
from just a 1 month subscription not to mention the loads of pdfs content from archives of
Dragon is incredible.). The character builder and adventure tools do not stop working at the
end of the month its incredible but entry in to 4e is probably cheaper than
well any game with anything like the content. All the classes all the races immediately available
without a heavy entry purchase.

And I think the DMG is one of the few vital things for people just starting.
Some of the things include guidelines for going beyond
the explicit rules (part of which is on page 42 of the DMG )...
something you wont get a feel for in the players handbook alone
parts of being a DM may be easier (like adjusting encounters on the fly
and setting up) but figuring out how to integrate/exploit skill challenges and similar
new things I think takes a little learning some recommend the DMG2 more for this
though the articles on DDi.... though some skill challenge house rules like enworlds Stalker0
bring it solid
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...llenge-system-update-version-1-1-now-pdf.html

The players handbook has some interesting elements in there which aren't in previous
editions that are a little squeezed between the mechanics of character design
Like the idea of the player being encouraged when they narrate and visualize how
there abilities and powers work to make it your own, it isnt nailed down to the description presented
by the book (that is just an option). Always been possible but the fact that its now v
ery much in your court is emphasized.
And your characters abilities don't need to represent just one game world thing or
always be that one precise thing... (this latter is mildly an extrapolation but it is rather
perfectly in keeping with 4e)

There are some slightly different philosophies of game play in 4e that werent in
previous editions but they don't have to overwhelm anything inspite of all
the interweb flames.

Anyway... no I wouldnt think just the PHB would be enough.
I find a penny and a nickle and a dime and a quarter or similar
miscellany will work in place of miniatures.. Unless you have a couple
computers handy... paper is a must have.

 

[Nifft]

If you were to only choose one book in addition to the PHB, I'd recommend the DMG.

It has all the rules for making monsters (so you don't technically need the MM), and a stack of good advice on running a game.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mengu]

You don't really need either the MM or the DMG to "run" the game. You just need to read, understand, and learn them (and as mentioned MM2 may be a better study). So just borrow them from a friend or the library, study them for a month, copy the bits you think you will need such as monster progression and damage progression, and you will be fine for heroic levels. While you're borrowing, I think DMG2 is well worth a read also. As you approach Paragon, you'll probably want a refresher and borrow a MM again.

As for minis, you may not necessarily need them (use cutouts, chits, beads, dice, whatever), but you need a battle map, if you want the full tactical 4e combat experience. The combat rule system is built with that assumption.

 

[Jhaelen]

Can a DM run a 4th Edition D&D campaign with NO equipment other than the Players Handbook, a set of dice, and pencil and paper?

I'd add the DM screen as being essential (or its equivalent, like a cheat sheet).

However, I wonder why you'd want to? Playing D&D without a Monster Manual strikes me as odd. Similarly, playing 4e without minis _all the time_ would probably be a bit boring.

There are most probably better rpgs out there if you don't care about monsters or minis in your game.

 

[Voadam]

In the group I'm in the DM uses appropriately sized squares of paper with the name of the PC or monster on them and uses a full chessex battlemat.

No minis, though the mat is used in every combat.

 

[Voadam]

You would want the DMG for the monster creation rules.

Much different and quicker than PC creation rules and creates easier to run monsters with excellent guidelines for creating different tactical feels for the combat.