Are the polls a correct measurment of what the dnd players want?

[kevtar]

doublepost.

 

[Sunseeker]

I think the WOTC polls are indicative of what the dozens of people who play 4e want, but not necessarily what the rest of the world wants.

Really? 4e players largely want Vancian magic?

In any case, WOTCs polls are worth squat. Some of the most poorly worded, confusing poll choices I've seen since last election cycle.

I don't think they really represent anything other than the fact that WOTC can't poll for beans.


mmmm...beans.

 

[kevtar]

No, they are not. The polls are an accurate measurement of what a small, vocal contingent of the online D&D community want. And even then, not all of us vote in the polls, so it's even smaller than you might suspect.

However, I suspect that it doesn't much matter what the polls say. Given how Paizo's open playtest functioned, I suspect that the polls exist as a method of appeasing the fanbase. Call me a cynic, but I strongly suspect WotC don't really care about the results of the poll or what the fanbase want. They're more interesting in giving the appearance of openness and compromise in order to woo past D&D players--particularly the disgruntled 3e players such as myself--to their game. The goal is to get us invested in 5e so that we are willing to spend money on the finished product.

It's working, sort of. I'm interested in the open playtest, but from what I've heard, I'm not getting my hopes up.

I've posted about this in another thread called "an open letter to WOTC about surveys" or something like that (sorry to have time to post the link), so I won't rehash that content here, but the polls - or at least a majority of the polls done by WOTC, have serious problems with reliability and validity. So, I don't think they are an accurate representation of participant's views - which actually supports your critique (in that, if the polls are poorly constructed because ultimately, the purpose of the goals is not data collected, but rather to give the false impression that WOTC cares).

While I typically support a critical perspective, IMO your approach is a little too cynical for me - I believe people like Mearls, Perkins, Thompson, Ward... they are all personally invested in tabletop gaming, and that they are going to do their best to meet the expectations of their "fellow gamers." I don't think they would purposefully deceive others just to support their own "edition preferences" or to launch a new product.

Perhaps I'm being naive - but I don't think so. Naivete and hope go hand-in-hand, and hope can be defined as believing in something even when their is no evidence. I however feel optimistic about 5e and the work producing it. Optimism can be defined as a positive perspective based on evidence. The evidence I've seen (videos from PAX, blog entries, comments on Wizards' forum, etc...) leads me to my optimistic stance.

 

[Libramarian]

Yeah I think Mike Mearls' explanation there quoted by @Iosue sums it up.

They're just thinking out loud with them really.

I tried commenting on one of the Legends & Lore articles once, but it wouldn't let me until I made an account, and then it wouldn't let me until I upgraded my account to a subscriber one (which I did not do).

That's when I knew that the comments on there are clearly not representative.

I'm sure they have enough sense to realize this. I think they even have enough sense to realize that the loudest, most invested people will tolerate the most jerking around while the quiet, less interested people are who you really have to seduce.

Basic dating advice also works for designing games...

 

[Tovec]

Yeah I think Mike Mearls' explanation there quoted by @Iosue sums it up.

Am I misreading that page by Mearls or was it over a year old?

I don't think the polls are representative. I don't think they are unbiased. I don't think they are widely enough distributed or sampled. I think they are poorly worded and answered.

However, they do seem to work as Mearls explained - they are a way for us to see what they are thinking and for them to see what we think. It isn't perfect and it shouldn't be the only way they do this but it is something.

 

[Serendipity]

What, no poll? Yeah a bit late on that, I'll admit.
Generally, I find them about as useful and valid as any opinion based poll which is to say, very very very little. The notion that they could be useful as an accurate barometer of anything for WotC save "What some of the poll responders want" is laughable.

 

[Raith5]

I dont think there is overwhelming support for 4th ed in those polls. But I think there is more support for some of the design goals and ambitions which 4th ed sought to achieve, than many think.

I also think we have to be realistic about what sort of engagement WOTC can make. Not only is it the case they cant read the minds of those not involved, they are designing a game, it is not a billion dollar civic program or bridge.

 

[CleverNickName]

Whatever their intended purpose, I believe Wizards of the Coast will give more weight to feedback from playtests, than they will from the polls.

 

[Serendipity]

Whatever their intended purpose, I believe Wizards of the Coast will give more weight to feedback from playtests, than they will from the polls.

One hopes so. Honestly I'd be surprised if any of the poll related feedback has much of an effect. Probably unpleasantly, simply because my tastes tend to differ from most of the respondents, all snark aside.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Do the polls give a correct measurment of what the dnd players want?

Which polls? Where? Here? WotC's site? At ALL the popular D&D forums in general?

In any case, not it's not really all that accurate. A poll measures the mood of those who CHOOSE to respond. So it's the measure of those with the strongest opinions and ONLY for those who visit that particular site and vote in that poll. Too, the various L&L polls are widely percieved as... not well-crafted. They seem to be of of the pattern of, "Here's several paragraphs describing some idea we have, here's a poll which is not meant to get you thinking or measure your mood so much as to convince you our idea or implementation is right and to not agree would be obviously wrong."

And if not, how can wizard embrace the people who don't answer these polls?

They can't. Squeaky wheels get the grease.

The current edition of dnd is 4e and so its more natural to have more people who like that edition to attend the forums and blogs (and vote to the polls).

Very much true. For a design team that supposedly wants to capture the best of all editions I haven't seen them establish any kind of presence on, say, Dragonsfoot to ferret out the opinion of what the fans of those older editions REALLY think are the valuable parts that need to be brought forward, not just the opinions of fans of the current edition, or those most active in discussions about the next edition.

My gaming group plays 3e-4e but noone has ever voted or participated in the forums.

In some measure that's YOUR fault. Those who sit at home and silently, happily play the edition that's in their hands are NOT who they need to design for and sell to. They need to design for and sell to the ones who ACTIVELY care about the direction the game is pushed in. The ones who SEEK to voice their opinion and have it affect the next edition. The ones who will invest emotionally and monetarily in 5E, not just say, "meh," and go back to thier 3E-4E game anyway.

Also, people who play olders editions is more likely to be older than those who play 4e and is more possible to have less time to attend the forums AND play their favorite game due to real life commitments (family, pressure in work, etc). What about these people and what about their voice?

It's actually less about age in itself but of who will buy it - who has the money and desire to spend and keep spending? It may suck but it is THOSE people WotC wants to bring together and shout from the hilltops that 5E is now the One True Edition and all the others were just beta tests.

If my above assumptions are true then how wizard will take into account my friends voice for the 5e?

they won't. If your friends want to be heard they have to PARTICIPATE in the conversation to start with. Visit the forums. FIND and then vote on the polls. Form opinions and PUBLICLY be able to defend them/ convince others. Don't wait for the designers to knock on your door and ask you what you want. Talking on WotC forums or even other D&D forums that WotC is paying at least SOME attention to will get you far more effective results than talk just at your game table. Joining the open beta will get you a direct line to them as they are actively asking you then for your feedback. 'Course, by then they're really working on fine tuning what they've already got rather than determining the general direction they should be going in the first place.