Are the Retro Clones doing well?

[Remathilis]

I would define a retroclone as a rulesystem which replicates an earlier, out-of-print rules system and adheres to that previous rules system as close as legally possible in order to preserve that system in some kind of evergreen format.

It's the underlined portion that disqualifies Pathfinder and C&C in my opinion. The "preservation" aspect of those systems is diluted by an effort to improve on the predecessor systems. True retroclones like OSRIC, S&W and LL (for example) are 100% about preservation and differ from their predecessor systems only where it's legally necessary.

A new term that could encompass all the "clones" as you define them as well as "sympathetic kin" (C&C, BFRPG) would be appropriate, but I doubt any term like this will come about, so I think "Retro-clone" is going to either become an incorrect big-tent label or its going to have to force some form of "purity-test" to weed out the true-clones from the sorta-OS games.

 

[Hairfoot]

Incidentally, I'd be excited to see someone do a Star Frontiers retro-clone. I've always considered it the best d100% system I've seen.

Alternatively, you can download the originals.

 

[SSquirrel]

Pathfinder isn't a retro-clone, it is merely a d20 OGL variant. Retro-clones are looking back at much earlier gaming history and getting around copyright to make the old systems easily accessible. OD&D, BECMI, 2E clones would all classify. 3E based products are IMO never something that will be retro-clones as there is already a structure built to allow for variants based on them. The clones circumvent, where 3E has no need for that.

 

[Ourph]

A new term that could encompass all the "clones" as you define them as well as "sympathetic kin" (C&C, BFRPG) would be appropriate, but I doubt any term like this will come about, so I think "Retro-clone" is going to either become an incorrect big-tent label or its going to have to force some form of "purity-test" to weed out the true-clones from the sorta-OS games.

I think "retro game" is probably the correct big tent term, and I've seen that term used more than once in reference to the retroclones and their less clone-like kindred.

 

[Umbran]

I think "retro game" is probably the correct big tent term, and I've seen that term used more than once in reference to the retroclones and their less clone-like kindred.

To use a Star Trekism - there is some "replicative fading" in the cloning process

 

[SSquirrel]

To use a Star Trekism - there is some "replicative fading" in the cloning process

Or if you have seen the movie Multiplicity, "You know how when you make a copy of a copy, everything is a little bit faded?". Different clones end up with different personality quirks and/or intelligence levels.

 

[nedjer]

A 'retro clone' comes across as a game that doesn't go beyond the D&D staples. Standard fantasy, levels, classes, dungeons, treasure, i.e. resource management play and rewards. These games are all about ordinance, and it's great fun deploying ordinance in Dragonslayers or C&C.

A 'clone' seems a more troubled term, as a fantasy system with novel kinds of gameplay/ presentation/ setting isn't necessarily a clone because it has elves and character advancement.

You could argue that Traveller is a D&D clone in a SciFi setting, or that Rogue Trader is a Traveller clone which has just been given some extra rules. But, at base, each of these games takes you in very different directions despite the common ground.

 

[paigeoliver]

What the heck, I will give some pretty solid numbers.

Red Box Fantasy (which is one of the newest Retro-Clones and written mostly by me) has been out for about 2 months, has barely been promoted in any way and is still getting about 30 downloads of the free book a week and averaging about 5 or 6 purchases of the pay books (about 75 percent downloads and 25 percent physical copies).

Paige Oliver's Storefront - Lulu.com

 

[Hairfoot]

A 'retro clone' comes across as a game that doesn't go beyond the D&D staples. Standard fantasy, levels, classes, dungeons, treasure, i.e. resource management play and rewards. These games are all about ordinance, and it's great fun deploying ordinance in Dragonslayers or C&C.

Things like OpenD6 are also retro-cloning, so there'll be a variety of genres served there, like six-sided Supernatural.

The "retro" bit is coming to mean a philosophy of RPGing, rather than a strict type of rules or genre.

 

[dm4hire]

I didn't realize there were 2e retro's available. I've only found Basic and 1st.