Are warriors & rogues required at high level?

[Bauglir]

Just because they have a forumula in common does not mean that those 2 things are one and the same. Armour and Cloaks of Resistance scale in price in a similar manner but they have nothing else in common.

I eat rules forum regulars for breakfast.

Was wondering what had happened to Hypersmurf

LOL - You see, in the rights hands (The DMs in this case) the Monk is deadly!

I would point out that a level 1 commoner would be equally deadly under those circumstances

I remember the class poll - it was from quite a while ago. I don't remember the results though, so I posted a new poll

 

[Hackenslash]

Everybody Look !!! Grishnak is a Rogue......again !!!

Hi all,

Just thought that those of you who have contributed to, and have been following, this thread would like to know that Grishnak decided to play a 1st Level Rogue in my new Campaign, as I am the one that has taken over from the previous DM where Grishnak played his Ranger/ShadowDancer. The 1st adventure went ok, if a little dull(not much combat), but it was really a character intro. adventure designed to gel the group together and let people find their places. The roleplaying was encouraging and that is really my point, sometimes a character can be just as fun to play in the right circumstances with the right settings and scenarios. It is not always about how much damage can your character do vs. another character in the group. Just a little insight into the new campaign. Cheers All.....Oh and Grishnak try and not get yourself killed till at least you're able to successfully evade a fireball or two and then sit smuggly while the others get fried....hehehehe.

 

[Thanee]

Interesting that the Cleric and Druid are the only classes that stay in the top four throughout.

Actually the Wizard is in there, too. I just couldn't decide between Druid and Wizard for low level, since the Druid has more gimmicks (i.e. better saves), but the Wizard starts out with better spells. They are about even there, probably, altho the Wizard's power increases quicker with new spell levels!

I am also curious how and where this paradigm shift between Sorcerors/Wizards and Clerics/Druids occurs?

My guess would be around 12th-13th level. That's where Clerics are at their highest (relative to level) ability and Wizards become stronger and stronger throughout.

I don't agree. Surely feats that add bonuses or provide advantages are not necessarily 'used up' at any point.

I meant not one feat, but the chosen feats as a whole. I.e. at some point a fighter doesn't have any really good feats to choose from anymore and must resort to choosing moderately useful feats.

A single level of Sorceror spells is equal to 1.75 feats under my auspices.

That's difficult to judge, but new spell levels add A LOT of power (especially in the higher areas), whereas one or two feats usually add only minor qualities (like +1 to hit, +2 damage, +2 to a save, etc).

Where is this poll? I went five pages back and couldn't find it. Is it recent?

I'll try to find it...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Page 14 currently (Poll: Worst 5th party member).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Bauglir mate!

Just because they have a forumula in common does not mean that those 2 things are one and the same.

What the heck else could it mean? The evidence is all there in black and white.

Armour and Cloaks of Resistance scale in price in a similar manner but they have nothing else in common.

I don't see what thats got to do with putting the abilities of one magic item into another that occupies a different body slot?

Bracers* of Armour +5 with Heavy Fortification cost 150,000 GP. Its official.

Or Cloaks or Necklaces or Teaspoons.

Was wondering what had happened to Hypersmurf

I ate his liver with some Fava beans and a nice Cianti.

I would point out that a level 1 commoner would be equally deadly under those circumstances

Don't say that or everyone will want to play one.

I remember the class poll - it was from quite a while ago. I don't remember the results though, so I posted a new poll

Good idea mate.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all,

Hey Hackenslash!

Just thought that those of you who have contributed to, and have been following, this thread would like to know that Grishnak decided to play a 1st Level Rogue in my new Campaign, as I am the one that has taken over from the previous DM where Grishnak played his Ranger/ShadowDancer.

Good luck Grishnak - we are all rooting for you.

The 1st adventure went ok, if a little dull (not much combat),

If roleplaying is ever dull then thats the players fault as much (if not more?) than the DMs.

but it was really a character intro. adventure designed to gel the group together and let people find their places. The roleplaying was encouraging and that is really my point, sometimes a character can be just as fun to play in the right circumstances with the right settings and scenarios.

Absolutely, fun is the name of the game...almost.

It is not always about how much damage can your character do vs. another character in the group.

Wasn't this thread all about Grishnaks character feeling inadequate in contrast to his peers though!?

Just a little insight into the new campaign.

Have fun!

Cheers All.....Oh and Grishnak try and not get yourself killed till at least you're able to successfully evade a fireball or two and then sit smuggly while the others get fried....hehehehe.

Or even better don't try to get killed period.

 

[Bauglir]

Bracers* of Armour +5 with Heavy Fortification cost 150,000 GP. Its official.

Bracers of Armor: These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.
Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, mage armor, creator’s caster level must be at least two times that of the bonus placed in the bracers; Price 1,000 gp (+1), 4,000 gp (+2), 9,000 gp (+3), 16,000 gp (+4), 25,000 gp (+5), 36,000 gp (+6), 49,000 gp (+7), 64,000 gp (+8);Weight 1 lb.

Officially, Bracers of Armor can only confer "an armor bonus of +1 to +8." There is no support for them conferring special armour properties by default.

What the heck else could it mean? The evidence is all there in black and white.

It could mean nothing at all. It could also mean exactly what you think it does. There is no proof for either case really (so might as well just forget about it for now - if it wasn't for ambiguous rules we wouldn't have nearly as much fun over on the rules forum )

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Thanee mate!

Actually the Wizard is in there, too.

Hes in my top five too!

I just couldn't decide between Druid and Wizard for low level, since the Druid has more gimmicks (i.e. better saves), but the Wizard starts out with better spells. They are about even there, probably, altho the Wizard's power increases quicker with new spell levels!

So you say.

My guess would be around 12th-13th level. That's where Clerics are at their highest (relative to level) ability and Wizards become stronger and stronger throughout.

Interesting. Someone in Bauglirs poll thread mentioned it was when Sorcerors/Wizards get shapechange - I'll reply to him in due course.

You would therefore agree with me that Sorceror/Wizard spellcasting is superior to Clerics?

I meant not one feat, but the chosen feats as a whole. I.e. at some point a fighter doesn't have any really good feats to choose from anymore and must resort to choosing moderately useful feats.

I really don't see it that way at all:

Of the 18 feats by 20th-level at least 10-12 are pretty much already chosen for you already, more depending on which route you specialise in: missile weapons, two-weapon fighting, specialist techniques etc.

When you get to epic levels the choices again blossom although Armor Skin and Damage Reduction are both much too powerful as written, not to mention the very idea of Armor Skin is nonsensical.

That's difficult to judge, but new spell levels add A LOT of power (especially in the higher areas), whereas one or two feats usually add only minor qualities (like +1 to hit, +2 damage, +2 to a save, etc).

Don't underestimate the little things, they soon mount up.

I think its a fair appraisal to equate Twenty Levels of Integrated Sorceror spells to 35 feats. Though under such circumstances you would need to allow access to epic feats otherwise you will probably run out.

I'll try to find it...

...Page 14 currently (Poll: Worst 5th party member).

Bye
Thanee

Thanks.

Okay, the poll name says it all. Its for the worst 5th party member - not the weakest class.

Monks are by their very nature the class that balances all others; as such they offer little in the way of innovation but are strong in every area. Hence the reason they are perceived as a fifth wheel rather than as a viable fifth party member.

 

[Grishnak]

Hi Grishnak!



Player apathy is probably the reason why that poll is stacked against the monk.

I mean have these philistines not seen Crouching Tiger; Iron Monkey or Hero!?



LOL - You see, in the rights hands (The DMs in this case) the Monk is deadly!

Yeah shame it was my char that had to find out the hard way

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Bauglir mate!

Officially, Bracers of Armor can only confer "an armor bonus of +1 to +8." There is no support for them conferring special armour properties by default.

The whole point to the the body slot affinities rule is so that items are no longer constrained by a single shape - the rule clearly applies to any item and is interchangeable; the evidence already exists in the DMG.

When you change the standard body slot of an item (of whatever kind) the cost is multiplied x1.5

If you want to make a Codpeice of Etherealness; or Moustache of Heavy Fortification then you can and they cost x1.5 the standard costs.

It could mean nothing at all. It could also mean exactly what you think it does. There is no proof for either case really (so might as well just forget about it for now - if it wasn't for ambiguous rules we wouldn't have nearly as much fun over on the rules forum )

Well if you want to concede the point feel free.

The evidence is there in black and white, theres nothing ambiguous about it. Adding the power from one item to another (with a different body slot affinity) costs x1.5

I proved it...with examples. Oh wait, you want another...

Cloak of Elvenkind (+5 Hide Bonus) = 2,500 GP

Shadow Armour (+5 Hide Bonus) = 3,750 GP

Once again following the x1.5 multiplier for uncustomary space limitation.