Are we, as a wider community, nasty?

[Neonchameleon]

About as many people as deleting a wiki reference over a personal grudge.

Importing cross-board drama? Just what this thread needs.

 

[DM Howard]

I almost see it as politics. Everyone can have an almost unique perspective on any one topic and thus have their own opinions, biases, and stances on different subjects within the tabletop hobby.

 

[Morrus]

And maybe you and Morrus want to try to derail my actual answer to the question with the claim that I am a relativist

Excuse me? I dropped out of this conversation and left you to it long ago once it took a direction I had no particular interest in. Leave me out of your disagreement, please, and continue your conversation.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Excuse me? I dropped out of this conversation and left you to it long ago once it took a direction I had no particular interest in. Leave me out of your disagreement, please, and continue your conversation.

You did so while taking an incorrect parting shot that continued into a straw man.

Fair enough. You've just largely dismissed the validity of adjectives in favour of relativism. I'm not particularly interested in a discussion about the relative nature of all objects in the universe

As you managed both a parting shot and a straw man in that post I have every right to a reply. I chose not to do so at the time - but Umbran has continued this chain of discussion and invoked you (as the thread starter) while continuing your misrepresentation. I therefore suggest you take things up with him. And not use straw men ("all objects in the universe") in future.

 

[Morrus]

You did so while taking an incorrect parting shot that continued into a straw man.

As you managed both a parting shot and a straw man in that post I have every right to a reply. I chose not to do so at the time - but Umbran has continued this chain of discussion and invoked you (as the thread starter) while continuing your misrepresentation. I therefore suggest you take things up with him. And not use straw men ("all objects in the universe") in future.

As stated, I have no interest in this line of conversation. Please leave me out of it.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

*Looks up thread*

Sooooo, I'm guessing the answer to the question at hand is yes?

Personally, I think that the gaming community at large tends to make too many excuses for itself and it's sometime sociopathic behavior. Especially how it acts on message board forum.

I was part of a two or three different message board communities on Delphi, including the Warren Ellis forum. People there were well behaved and decent almost to a fault and were capable of disagreeing and discussing without getting vile and personal. There were a few people who came in occasionally and stir up the pot but they were quickly dealt with.

Gamers as a whole treat each other with derision and tend to be inclined to crap all over things they dont like as opposed to talk up things that they do. Criticism is useful when we're seeking to possibly do something better or to think about how a "problem" can be resolved. But the "Criticism" that goes on boards like these alot of the time is a usually a bunch of nerds engaging in the equivalent of a d**k measuring contest. Theyre not seeking to make the community a better place. Theyre not seeking to come up with solutions. Theyre seeking to beat up on people who in their eyes "have made mistakes" and a lot of time insinuate that those people (most often designers) should be fixed along with their mistakes.

I love my hobbies and I can say the same thing about Comic book and Anime fans. I LOVE mu hobbies but I HATE the fandom for the most part.

The only reason that I tolerated the signal to noise ratio here was because at one time there was a lot of good news and insight that came from the people here. If it weren't for this place I wouldn't have learned about a lot of the great 3rd party publishers who published for d20.

After 4E I've had less and less use for ENWorld and it's members. I almost come here out of force of habit now. Every now and then I'll discover something here and it'll be worth it. So I keep coming back. I dont go back to RPG.net because compared to here it's not a pleasant place AT ALL.

I think if people treated each other with the basic respect that they would probably treat people in person with then Message Board communities would be a better place and thus less nasty. But I think that a tone has been set here (especially during the Edition Wars of 2007-10) that's not going to be possible. It's calmer here than it's been in a long time, I can say that much but then again I dont expect it to be as crazy here as it was back then.

And let me be perfectly clear, I've been drawn into less than respectable confrontations with other posters as well so I'm not saying this from any sort of enlightened position. My hands have been just as dirty as anyone elses. I kinda know my own triggers and try to avoid them. (THANK YOU IGNORE FEATURE!) I say TRY because I'm not perfect. Still even after saying all of that I dont want to give the impression that I hate this place. I dont. But my experiences with gamers on message boards lean toward them being a particularly nasty, bullying bunch with decent well intentioned people who dont let internet ego get to them being few and far between.

 

[Dungeoneer]

In Boston we argue Greek versus Italian pizza. I feel safer in an edition flamewar than a debate about ordering from Papa Gino's or House of Pizza. At least i don't have to eat the edition when I lose.

This made me LOL.

 

[Ryan Huffaker]

Maybe my story is different than most, but in 80's and 90's I grew up in a world in which actual gamers were few and far between. Meeting someone else who actually role-played was a somewhat novel experience (and usually lead to them joining our group). Coming out of that world, I see a lot of labels being thrown around, and most of it just seems to be getting in the way of actually enjoying the hobby on a basic level.

I still remember riding my ten-speed out to the local mall to buy my first AD&D2 book and novel that felt. My friends and I knew next-to-nothing about the wider hobby as a whole, and I became a DM long before I actually got to be a player! And yet what I learned there served as a basis for everything that came later. Enough that I felt more than confident enough to begin building my own game, something that more closely fits my idea of what a system should actually be. That was over fifteen years ago, and I'm still at it today.

It was when I began to approach the wider community at large that I started to encounter the labels.

 

[trancejeremy]

After 4E I've had less and less use for ENWorld and it's members. I almost come here out of force of habit now. Every now and then I'll discover something here and it'll be worth it. So I keep coming back. I dont go back to RPG.net because compared to here it's not a pleasant place AT ALL.

I think if people treated each other with the basic respect that they would probably treat people in person with then Message Board communities would be a better place and thus less nasty. But I think that a tone has been set here (especially during the Edition Wars of 2007-10) that's not going to be possible. It's calmer here than it's been in a long time, I can say that much but then again I dont expect it to be as crazy here as it was back then.

This exactly. I pretty much quit this place (helped along by a temporary ban, I might add) for the entire 4e era, because of all the fighting during the whole 4e/Pathfinder run up phase (announcement to release).

This place is a lot better now, but let's not pretend it was above edition wars back in the day, either.

 

[Ryan Huffaker]

Gamers as a whole treat each other with derision and tend to be inclined to crap all over things they dont like as opposed to talk up things that they do. Criticism is useful when we're seeking to possibly do something better or to think about how a "problem" can be resolved. But the "Criticism" that goes on boards like these alot of the time is a usually a bunch of nerds engaging in the equivalent of a d**k measuring contest. Theyre not seeking to make the community a better place. Theyre not seeking to come up with solutions. Theyre seeking to beat up on people who in their eyes "have made mistakes" and a lot of time insinuate that those people (most often designers) should be fixed along with their mistakes.

You have to wonder if we wouldn't be better off without all the hype and commercialization, whether that isn't part of what drives us to battle over who is better than who at playing make-believe

Seriously, take a step back and consider what you really enjoy. For me, it isn't the products so much as the experience. One thing that I know for sure is that the most rewarding experiences that I've ever had gaming have been those in which I've put a great deal of effort into bringing to life. Pathfinder, D&D4, Next, these are all products, not the actual experiences that make role-playing so rewarding. Yes, you need some rules and a setting, but why do we need to bicker about which product is better than which, when what really matters is how you and your friends find a way to enjoy it?

Maybe I'm off-base here, but I think the gaming community as a whole already has everything that it needs in order to keep the hobby exciting and moving forward. Think of all the tools we have at our disposal, all the talent, all the creativity, all the drive and desire to create something worthwhile. Why don't we, as a community, put all of that potential to work and use it to create something better, rather than spending all of our time and effort just pull each other down? Maybe what we need is a chance to make our own decision about what makes a good RPG, and then go to work ourselves and make that dream a reality.