I don't kill off PCs without giving the player a chance to reconsider the action that might result in immediate death. In 10 years I think I have only killed one PC - and that was a PC that had left the party, and decided to get revenge for a slight against another PC. I just let the first describe his home security, and the other his course of actions, and then judged the result (dead PC). I would have never done it with a PC that was not going to be retired though.
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Are you a killer DM?
- Thread starter fenzer
- Start date
Tom Cashel
First Post
I have a rather high death toll in my game...recently it was surprising to play a session in which no one died...but I chalk this up to the strategy, tactics and demeanor of my players, which can be summed up and indeed fully defined by the phrase:
"Get 'em!"
"Get 'em!"
Vigilant Fiend
First Post
Toasties
The most recent death of Pc's was where three Pc's perished by the flames of a red dragon. Later in the night two of the Pc's new characters died again at the hands of a fiendish giant of some sort. Those were the first casaulties in the campaign and they were around tenth level. I try to be fair but tough. I like the Pc's to take some damage and try different tactics, they have used the same tactic the entire campaign for better and worse.
The most recent death of Pc's was where three Pc's perished by the flames of a red dragon. Later in the night two of the Pc's new characters died again at the hands of a fiendish giant of some sort. Those were the first casaulties in the campaign and they were around tenth level. I try to be fair but tough. I like the Pc's to take some damage and try different tactics, they have used the same tactic the entire campaign for better and worse.
In the past year with five players, I've had a TPK (in the Sunless Citadel of all places) and three individual character deaths since. Since we play about once a month, that works out to approximately 8 deaths in 12 sessions.
My players understand that the TPK was due to the lack of a "tactical flanking maneuver" on their part, thus allowing one of the heavies in the Citadel to take them out.
The only time I pull punches is when it will cripple the story if I don't. The players know and appreciate that, because it makes their victories meaningful. They trust me to not "screw them" arbitrarily, nor do we create a "me vs. them" atmosphere. They're working to figure out the mystery I've created for them, and I'm working to make it as interesting and unexpected as possible for all of us.
It's a lot of fun for all concerned, despite the fairly heavy death toll.
- Palantir
My players understand that the TPK was due to the lack of a "tactical flanking maneuver" on their part, thus allowing one of the heavies in the Citadel to take them out.
The only time I pull punches is when it will cripple the story if I don't. The players know and appreciate that, because it makes their victories meaningful. They trust me to not "screw them" arbitrarily, nor do we create a "me vs. them" atmosphere. They're working to figure out the mystery I've created for them, and I'm working to make it as interesting and unexpected as possible for all of us.
It's a lot of fun for all concerned, despite the fairly heavy death toll.
- Palantir
WizarDru
Adventurer
I don't think of myself as a killer DM, but 3E has certainly made me so. In 22 years of DMing, I have killed 6 characters. Four of them under 3E, and all of them within the last year.
3e and D&D's perpetuation of the 'Save or Die' spells certainly ups the ante for this sort of situation. The way my 3e players have died:
1. Coup de'Graced character after Mummy Paralysis in 'Heart of Nightfang Spire'
2. Finger of Death-like spell trap in 'Heart of Nightfang Spire'
3. Wail of the Banshee-spell trap on rogue's failed disable roll
4. Massive damage from a monster on the mage (last week)
There have been plenty of near misses, but the actual deaths have come faster and more furiously in 3e. Granted, bringing characters back from the point of death is easier (and I'm frankly stunned to hear how many tales of 'started a new character' are in this thread), but it just seems like the lethality has been really cranked up a notch.
As for GURPS, it IS lethal. However, any sane character concentrates heavily on defense, so the lethality is not nearly as concentrated as it might first appear. PCs compensate accordingly in GURPS for the threat-level. However, if you think GURPS isn't potentially very lethal, then I tend to wonder which settings you've tried with it.
3e and D&D's perpetuation of the 'Save or Die' spells certainly ups the ante for this sort of situation. The way my 3e players have died:
1. Coup de'Graced character after Mummy Paralysis in 'Heart of Nightfang Spire'
2. Finger of Death-like spell trap in 'Heart of Nightfang Spire'
3. Wail of the Banshee-spell trap on rogue's failed disable roll
4. Massive damage from a monster on the mage (last week)
There have been plenty of near misses, but the actual deaths have come faster and more furiously in 3e. Granted, bringing characters back from the point of death is easier (and I'm frankly stunned to hear how many tales of 'started a new character' are in this thread), but it just seems like the lethality has been really cranked up a notch.
As for GURPS, it IS lethal. However, any sane character concentrates heavily on defense, so the lethality is not nearly as concentrated as it might first appear. PCs compensate accordingly in GURPS for the threat-level. However, if you think GURPS isn't potentially very lethal, then I tend to wonder which settings you've tried with it.
MerakSpielman
First Post
Tom Cashel said:
"Get 'em? That's your plan?"
Heh Heh. We use that movie quote all the time in our group, but as a joke when we know (or think) the enemies are pushovers.
My next campaign is designed to be killer. It will take place in my world's version of the Underdark (with the surface world rendered uninhabitable) and have heavy elements of political intregue and faction warfare, not to mention extra-planar entities aiming to destroy the world, and quite capable of it with time. I will pull no punches nor alter in any way the world I am going to create in detail. I will have monsters, lairs, towns, locations of interest, trade routes, NPCs, treasures, magical items, and traps pre-devised for the ENTIRE campaign world before play starts (this will take considerable time, I realize). After the initial "orientation adventure," the characters will have free reign. They can travel anywhere, talk to anyone, and if they try hard enough, run into the biggest, meanest monsters in the area at 1st level.
I expect a death toll, but my players are going to be expecting this kind of game. I know they can play smart/paranoid if they want to, and they want a "D&D-realistic" world, not one orgainized around their own character's gentle progression from 1st to 20th level. No hand holding here!
I'm interested to see how it goes. Even with a more tailered campaign, like I'm running right now, I have a reputation for killing characters (4 of the 7 characters have died in the campaign and subsequently been raised).
I recieved a high complement from a very experienced player last game: "Your games always leave me tense." (This after a battle with several vampire spawn with everybody - PC and NPC - flying in a huge pit over a Otluke's Dispelling Screen that threatoned to dispel their fly-magic and drop them into 5 foot deep green slime, 60' further down).
I love D&D!
mkletch
First Post
If characters are more aggressive in my campaigns, they tend to die more often. My next camapign will have no raising mechanism other than True Reincarnation, and we'll have a character tree. As for body count, I had three characters die in the last two sessions, though typically it is one character death per three or four sessions.
Most often it is bad luck, crits. or poor player strategy that causes deaths, and I am unforgiving on all three as a DM. The fact that, either as a DM or player I cannot bang two dice together, let alone roll well mitigates this fact, though only somewhat.
As for CDG, I almost never use it as a DM; I have just not found it necessary. The characters die easily enough without it...
-Fletch!
Most often it is bad luck, crits. or poor player strategy that causes deaths, and I am unforgiving on all three as a DM. The fact that, either as a DM or player I cannot bang two dice together, let alone roll well mitigates this fact, though only somewhat.
As for CDG, I almost never use it as a DM; I have just not found it necessary. The characters die easily enough without it...
-Fletch!
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incognito
First Post
Me Bad?
Yeah, I think I'm turnign into a killer DM, but my players have all brawn, and little brain.
4 total players. Each has suffered two character deaths in the past year. But in my defence, 1/2 of those deaths came for a foolish heriocs TPK
player 1:
cleric of Kord died at the hands of Utreshimon, a blue dragon, who power attacked for 5 and criticaled.
A rogue/ranger who sacked CON for STR and DEX - died at th hand of a raging Gnoll barbarian.
player 2:
Barbarian/Cleric of Obad-hai. Just got worn down in a gnoll fight, he same fight that killed player 1
Sorcerer/Rogue who got criticalled by a shadow for 9 points of STR drain. Yikes!
player 3:
Cheaty Elf/Ranger I was glad to see die. Utreshimon caught him and one other PC in a nasty lightning breath. One PC had endure elements and made his save. The other PC crisped nicely
Cleric of Farlanghan/roge/ranger. Another cheaty character. Died in the gnoll fight to a random hit with a javelin. d6+3 sometimes does 9.
player 4:
Halfling wizard got grappled in the the Gnoll fight. Amazing how little they can do once this happenes (L5).
Barbarian/Rogue got squished by a custom monster. A tentacle thingy that has some nasty special abilites, like constrict (and it's huge). Still working on that one.
Yeah, I think I'm turnign into a killer DM, but my players have all brawn, and little brain.
4 total players. Each has suffered two character deaths in the past year. But in my defence, 1/2 of those deaths came for a foolish heriocs TPK
player 1:
cleric of Kord died at the hands of Utreshimon, a blue dragon, who power attacked for 5 and criticaled.
A rogue/ranger who sacked CON for STR and DEX - died at th hand of a raging Gnoll barbarian.
player 2:
Barbarian/Cleric of Obad-hai. Just got worn down in a gnoll fight, he same fight that killed player 1
Sorcerer/Rogue who got criticalled by a shadow for 9 points of STR drain. Yikes!
player 3:
Cheaty Elf/Ranger I was glad to see die. Utreshimon caught him and one other PC in a nasty lightning breath. One PC had endure elements and made his save. The other PC crisped nicely
Cleric of Farlanghan/roge/ranger. Another cheaty character. Died in the gnoll fight to a random hit with a javelin. d6+3 sometimes does 9.
player 4:
Halfling wizard got grappled in the the Gnoll fight. Amazing how little they can do once this happenes (L5).
Barbarian/Rogue got squished by a custom monster. A tentacle thingy that has some nasty special abilites, like constrict (and it's huge). Still working on that one.
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Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
Just look at my sig!
I consider it my duty to let PC's die if thier players are morons. When I hear them say, "but I've got so much story built up around this PC!" I say, "too bad, you shouldn't have been such an idiot !"
I didn't want to kill thier PC's, but I feel I owed it to them.
I consider it my duty to let PC's die if thier players are morons. When I hear them say, "but I've got so much story built up around this PC!" I say, "too bad, you shouldn't have been such an idiot !"
I didn't want to kill thier PC's, but I feel I owed it to them.
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