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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Are you a killer DM?
- Thread starter fenzer
- Start date
Quickbeam
Explorer
Our group rotates DM's, so I've only been back on the job for three months or so. I assumed the reins as our group commenced RttToEE, and right now the party is firmly entrenched within the Mines. Thus far, there have only been two PC deaths (one due to a failed save, the other a normal combat kill), but numerous other very close calls. Like Olgar, our party uses negative CON instead of -10 as the deathmark, which means at least two additional deaths that I'm aware of have been averted. Also, this group has made no less than five -- YES 5 -- saves to avoid death during coup de grace attempts. It's amazing!!
Prior to this cast of characters and campaign, I'd say the death toll averaged about one PC every 6-8 sessions. PC's might suffer disfiguring effects or other trauma, but my players have a knack for avoiding death most of the time, and there has never been a TPK with me as DM. I've beaten the party down severely, but they always manage to escape the TPK. Overall, we're pretty happy with our dynamic in this respect: players know their characters can die, but they usually have an opportunity to watch them evolve and grow.
Prior to this cast of characters and campaign, I'd say the death toll averaged about one PC every 6-8 sessions. PC's might suffer disfiguring effects or other trauma, but my players have a knack for avoiding death most of the time, and there has never been a TPK with me as DM. I've beaten the party down severely, but they always manage to escape the TPK. Overall, we're pretty happy with our dynamic in this respect: players know their characters can die, but they usually have an opportunity to watch them evolve and grow.
Dagger75
Epic Commoner
I am a creampuff
In our current game, I have only killed 2 PC's. One at first level by an ogre, the other was harmed and cone of colded.
Thats it in like 2 years.
My last game showed me just how weak I was.
1 White Wyrm Dragon, 1 10th Frost Giant Barbarian, 1 Drow 18 level cleric of Lolth. They all died.
Granted there were miracals, healing circles and harm being thrown about by all sides so I guess it wasn't all bad.
In our current game, I have only killed 2 PC's. One at first level by an ogre, the other was harmed and cone of colded.
Thats it in like 2 years.
My last game showed me just how weak I was.
1 White Wyrm Dragon, 1 10th Frost Giant Barbarian, 1 Drow 18 level cleric of Lolth. They all died.
Granted there were miracals, healing circles and harm being thrown about by all sides so I guess it wasn't all bad.
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
I flirted with being a killer DM, based in no small part on the general sentiment on this board -- and finally decided, who needs it?
My campaigns tend to be character-centered with heavy politics and byzantine plots. I try to customize plots to the PCs, so that they intimately care about what's going on. If they have to switch out PCs every couple of weeks, it makes the plots incoherent and disjointed.
Furthermore, I don't want all battles to be fair fights. I sometimes decide that a PC who goes off by himself encounters a full force of bad guys and has no hope of winning the fight.
I therefore am perfectly willing to fudge to keep a PC alive: I'll halve the damage from an otherwise killing blow, I'll have the town guard show up as the PC drops, I'll have PCs disfigured rather than killed.
And I ain't gonna apologize to nobody about it. It's how we enjoy our games, and that's that.
Daniel
My campaigns tend to be character-centered with heavy politics and byzantine plots. I try to customize plots to the PCs, so that they intimately care about what's going on. If they have to switch out PCs every couple of weeks, it makes the plots incoherent and disjointed.
Furthermore, I don't want all battles to be fair fights. I sometimes decide that a PC who goes off by himself encounters a full force of bad guys and has no hope of winning the fight.
I therefore am perfectly willing to fudge to keep a PC alive: I'll halve the damage from an otherwise killing blow, I'll have the town guard show up as the PC drops, I'll have PCs disfigured rather than killed.
And I ain't gonna apologize to nobody about it. It's how we enjoy our games, and that's that.
Daniel
in my 20 years of DMing, i've never killed a PC.
i've never seen a PC that "deserved" to die, whatever that means.
i will fudge die rolls in combat to keep PCs alive, but i don't think that's a bad thing. if the players want to play a new character every other session, they are free to do that -- i don't need to force them to do it by killing off their characters.
even as DM, i'm rooting for the heroes (the PCs) just as much as the players are. and a fun game is had by all.
i've never seen a PC that "deserved" to die, whatever that means.
i will fudge die rolls in combat to keep PCs alive, but i don't think that's a bad thing. if the players want to play a new character every other session, they are free to do that -- i don't need to force them to do it by killing off their characters.
even as DM, i'm rooting for the heroes (the PCs) just as much as the players are. and a fun game is had by all.
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
It all depends on the group. If the players know that the DM will always fudge the rolls to keep them alive most I've encountered will take that as encouragement to act like there is no real danger to the PC's. Becuase there isn't any. I don't want my players to think that poor battle tactics and foolishness are the ways to power and fame by letting them constantly survive situations that should have killed them.
sword-dancer
Explorer
Jürgen Hubert said:I'm trying, I'm trying... but in yesterday's session, I ran three combats, two of which were fairly tough in my opinion - but still no PC has died.
I blame the GURPS rules system. Everyone claims it is lethal, but that just doesn't work that way in practice. I mean, how many Skaven assassins do I have to send in before they kill a single PC?
You did use the full rules for piercing?
How strong were the skaven Ass, and how hgh was the KO of the PCs?
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
Flexor the Mighty! said:
Hmm...I think I look at it differently.
Indiana Jones is always trying insane crap that by all rights oughtta get him killed. He somehow survives it.
Bufy and gang are poor planners a lot of the time, fall for traps all the time, and generally don't work together nearly as well as they could. Character death is really rare on the show.
James Bond engages in absurdly risky stunts and barely pulls them off.
If you're going for a high-adventure feel like these stories, then it's worth fudging to keep the characters alive. And it doesn't really reduce the excitement.
When I watched Raiders of the Lost Ark for the first time, I knew that Indy was going to survive the movie. It didn't make it any less exciting for me.
Similarly, I can enjoy a hair-raising chase, an all-out battle, or a death-defying stunt in a game without wondering whether my PC will survive.
Daniel
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
Pielorinho said:
Indy is a damn good roller. He can pop a 20 out damn near on command. Buffy is a terrible show so I can't say what they do and why they do it. Bond has the skill and ability to do crazy things. I let the PC's get away with all kinds of crazy stuff. But when they are in a parlay with a Green Dragon that isn't going to kill them and one starts casting buff spells on himself expect the dragon to begin the slaughter. If you see a load of trolls you know you cannot possibly defeat in straight up battle, but you do it anyway instead of looking for other tactical options don't blame me when you die.
Adventuring is a dangerous buisness. Ancient tombs and dungeons are deadly. Enter at your own risk. And that risk is the fun of D&D. If I was playing and I knew the DM was never going to let us die if we were in a situation where we should I'd get bored and quit the game. Different Strokes ya know.
P.S. I really don't see how a movie compares.
MerakSpielman
First Post
Interesting.
Pielorinho,
I presume that your characters want to feel somehow "special" or blessed or whatever, compared to the rest of the creatures in your world? In a fight against NPCs with identical levels and equipment, they would have greater than a 50-50 chance of survival? If that is how they want their game, then I suppose you should cater to them.
My players get a thrill out of knowing that their opponents are trying desperately to kill their characters. After all, the NPCs and monsters don't want to die. When I DM a group of monsters, my GOAL is to try to get the monsters to win. That's what the monsters would honestly be trying to do, right? Why should I DM them any differently? Do they have a death wish or something? Of course, in practice, the monsters rarely win, but the principle remains. It's more fun and challanging to be fighting for your very life, and know that when you live, it's because of your own skills and tactics, not the DM fudging dice.
Pielorinho,
I presume that your characters want to feel somehow "special" or blessed or whatever, compared to the rest of the creatures in your world? In a fight against NPCs with identical levels and equipment, they would have greater than a 50-50 chance of survival? If that is how they want their game, then I suppose you should cater to them.
My players get a thrill out of knowing that their opponents are trying desperately to kill their characters. After all, the NPCs and monsters don't want to die. When I DM a group of monsters, my GOAL is to try to get the monsters to win. That's what the monsters would honestly be trying to do, right? Why should I DM them any differently? Do they have a death wish or something? Of course, in practice, the monsters rarely win, but the principle remains. It's more fun and challanging to be fighting for your very life, and know that when you live, it's because of your own skills and tactics, not the DM fudging dice.
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