Are you excited about the Forgotten Realms setting changes?

[IanB]

Those are some good suggestions. I think Forgotten Realms could benefit from Eras to focus on. They would likely need to boil it down (Arcane Age, Fall of the Empires, Time of Troubles, 3.5 era and After the Spellplague). If 4e does well, and there is interest in historical setting supplements, those supplements could be a way to provide 4e game material and Realmslore on those eras and still keep true to the vision and direction of 4e FR. Anyrate, I like your idea.

I have my doubts WotC would ever go down a path like that; it sounds too similar in terms of dividing up the customer base to what TSR went through with their product glut. Their goal is to make 5 books that everyone will buy, not 10 books that only 10% of the customers will want any one of, or whatever. Slicing up a customer block with books that may only appeal to small corner case groups sounds like TSR all over again to me.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Thanks much, Najo.

Think of this, folks. Officially - by the canon - the entire Realmspace setting (that is, Forgotten Realms, AL-QADIM, Kara-Tur, Maztica, and Hordelands) is subject to the Arcane Age ruleset from the end of the Age of Thunder (-100,000 DR) until the Fall of Netheril (around -2,000 DR.)
So, why is that relevant? Because under those rules, wizards have 10th, 11th, and even 12th level spells, and elves have High Magic. (and all the other classes get ... nothing.) I'd call that relevant.

Want to play canon ancient Imaskari? You're stuck with the Arcane Age rules.
Want to play ancient ancient Damara? You're stuck with the Arcane Age rules.
Ancient Calimshan? You're stuck with the Arcane Age rules.
The ancient elven empires (pick an empire, any empire) ... You're stuck with the Arcane Age rules.

By now, you're probably ready to say: Edena_of_Neith, I'm not *stuck* with anything. I'll do what I want to do, thank you very much.

Well, exactly. Want to play those ancient realms with the 1E rules? You can do it. 2E rules? You can do it. 3.0? Yes. 3.5? Yes.

So, it's your Realms. Regardless of what the canon says, you can do as you please.

WOTC will only support the canon, apparently. If you play in official games, you're stuck with the canon. If you buy the books, they will be canon books.
That's fine. If you buy the books, you have a new setting to play in. Or new elements to add to your existing setting.

But it's your game.

-

This is the difference between FR and, say, Tolkien's Middle Earth.
If Christopher Tolkien suddenly decided to REWRITE all of Tolkien's works, and redefine Middle Earth, and then told all the Tolkien Fans that it was his way or the highway, then that would be disastrous. It might even be apocalyptic.

But we, as gamers, are not required to accept FR canon in the sense that we accept book canon. It is irritating in the extreme that they keep changing what the FR canon is, for a lot of people - as responses to various boards have shown - but we don't have to accept it. (Otherwise, I don't think anyone would still be playing FR. Do you?)

Now, if they changed the canon and announced that the Simbul was a 161st level wizard, then perhaps the result amongst gamers might be cataclysmic ...

 

[The Little Raven]

If Christopher Tolkien suddenly decided to REWRITE all of Tolkien's works, and redefine Middle Earth, and then told all the Tolkien Fans that it was his way or the highway, then that would be disastrous. It might even be apocalyptic.

This isn't an accurate analogy for what's happening with the Realms, since they're not rewriting the Realms, they're making a sequel.

 

[Hussar]

This isn't an accurate analogy for what's happening with the Realms, since they're not rewriting the Realms, they're making a sequel.

Maybe not, but, it's close enough to get the point.

Look at Dune. They've rewritten a fair bit of canon with the new Dune series. We're forced to accept that, because we aren't the authors. We can buy or not buy, but, therein lies the extent of our power.

RPG's, as Edena so rightly points out, are entirely different animals. WOTC has no choice but to put out canon books. Between the novel lines, CRPG's, and the RPG books themselves, that's a massive amount of canon. We're talking Trek level canon.

But, you're entirely free to ignore any of it when you sit down to play. And that's a good thing.

 

[Wormwood]

We're talking Trek level canon.

Or Galactica level canon.

Ohhhhhh. Never mind.

 

[The Little Raven]

Maybe not, but, it's close enough to get the point.

I disagree. Rewriting Tolkein means you have a chance that Frodo will not destroy the ring, and other things will happen instead. Writing a sequel to Tolkein doesn't change Frodo's adventure, it merely brings up the idea of "The New Shadow" (a canceled, theoretic sequel) taking place later.

It doesn't change Lord of the Rings one iota.

Look at Dune. They've rewritten a fair bit of canon with the new Dune series. We're forced to accept that, because we aren't the authors. We can buy or not buy, but, therein lies the extent of our power.

And again, if they're rewriting previous canon, that's wholly different from moving canon forward and having new events occur that change the world.

In 1372, Khelben was the most badass mage in Waterdeep, which is canon. In 1479, he's not, because he's dead. Now, this doesn't change him being that back in 1372, it just means the metaplot has moved forward and that's no longer the case. It doesn't invalidate it, it makes it different in a different time period.

 

[The Little Raven]

Or Galactica level canon.

Galactica doesn't even come close to the amount of Trek canon.

And if we're talking about the old Galactica, then I must suppress a giggle. I could never take that show seriously in any way.

 

[Hussar]

Or Galactica level canon.

Ohhhhhh. Never mind.

You're not helping.

Mourn, it's a talking point, just work with it.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Well, I can draw an analogy here. And then I'm out of this thread, since there's nothing more for me to say.

We're stuck with 4th Edition, like it or not. Just like we were stuck with whatever they wrote for the old Battlestar Galactica.
Was some of that old show entertaining? Yes. I liked Apollo and Starbuck.
Was some of that old show annoying? Yes. After the destruction of the Colonies, it was not appropriate for everyone to go enjoy themselves at the Party Planet (and if the planet was that unstable, it would have never have formed as a planet anyways.)

Is some of 4th Edition entertaining? Yes. IMO.
Is some of 4th Edition annoying? Yes. IMO.
But 4th Edition or the old Battlestar Galactica, we're stuck with it!

Yours Sincerely
Edena_of_Neith

EDIT: And we're stuck with Frodo and Sam going alone to Mordor, because Merry and Pippin saw fit to go running pell mell into the wilderness looking for Frodo and being captured, because Tolkien decreed this. And we're stuck with Arwen replacing Glorfindel in rescuing Frodo from the Ringwraiths, because Peter Jackson decreed that!

 

[The Little Raven]

Mourn, it's a talking point, just work with it.

I try, but then a daggit comes rolling in and my world turns upside down!