Pathfinder 2E Are you moving from 5E to PF2?

[Aldarc]

I believe cheat sheets will mostly serve to scare newcomers away. At least if they attempt to be complete, which applies to all I've seen so far.

Not in my experience, though your mileage may vary.

 

[Markh3rd]

I've played one session and PF2 is brutal when it comes to the fiddly stuff.

Not recommended to casuals. This is a different ball game than 5E.

Did you enjoy it? If not do you feel like you would enjoy it more once you're more comfortable with it?

 

[CapnZapp]

Not in my experience, though your mileage may vary.

What I tried to get at, was that any player casual enough to want to refer to cheat sheets (as opposed to reading the rulebook) would probably be intimidated by such sheets - you have lots of actions, you can combine them in multitude ways, there's dozens and dozens of conditions etc...

Conversely, any player taking PF2's cheat sheets in stride likely will do fine, even without them.

The desire to have an "easy" or "quick" cheat sheet is entirely understandable, but this game doesn't lend itself to learning it "easy" or "quick"...

 

[CapnZapp]

Did you enjoy it? If not do you feel like you would enjoy it more once you're more comfortable with it?

My players are enthusiastic, having been starved for crunch throughout our 5E campaigns.

I'm not including myself in the category I believe will be put off by the rules complexity.

 

[CapnZapp]

Remember, this thread is specifically about the 5E to PF2 experience.

Hoo boy, is my summary. Again, that refers to what I imagine is the average player (having entered the hobby thru 5E) and not myself (having bled and wept over 3E levels of complexity)...

 

[FrogReaver]

After reviewing the rules for a bit now I feel I can safely say we will not be switching. I definitely like some of the added depth vs 5e, but it is clearly a much more complex game as well and I am just not interested in that. At this point, I think it would be easier to achieve what I am looking for by taking some of the depth of PF2e and added to my next 5e game.

I've not looked as much at out of combat. But I wondering if the complexity in play or character building as opposed to playing the game. It seems to me like combat is going to be mostly -> Attack attack move. Or possibly replace attack attack move with special feat ability attack move.

The basic combat actions seem pretty easy to understand. IMO.

 

[CapnZapp]

Yes if somebody else builds the character for you the immediate onslaught of rules crunch goes way down.

Still, nope, sorry, simple "attack attack move" only happens on level 1.

You quickly rack up special moves that give you new decision points each round.

In fact my player's Ranger got about four of them already at level 1:

Start with Hunt Prey or not? (Will the critter live long enough for it to be worthwhile?)

Command the animal companion or use that action yourself?

Set your companion up for support, to gain Flat-footed for future attacks?

Use your third attack when the penalty is only -4? (Which can happen already at your second action thanks to Twin Takedown)

In 5E, a web of decisions this complex happens maybe at level 12. And that's assuming everything's "on" in your campaign: in particular feats and magic items.

Here we're talking a brand new character with 0 XP.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yes if somebody else builds the character for you the immediate onslaught of rules crunch goes way down.

Still, nope, sorry, simple "attack attack move" only happens on level 1.

You quickly rack up special moves that give you new decision points each round.

In fact my player's Ranger got about four of them already at level 1:

Start with Hunt Prey or not? (Will the critter live long enough for it to be worthwhile?)

Command the animal companion or use that action yourself?

Set your companion up for support, to gain Flat-footed for future attacks?

Use your third attack when the penalty is only -4? (Which can happen already at your second action thanks to Twin Takedown)

In 5E, a web of decisions this complex happens maybe at level 12. And that's assuming everything's "on" in your campaign: in particular feats and magic items.

Here we're talking a brand new character with 0 XP.

Right, but none of those options are hard. New players don't have to make the optimial decision point each time, they just need a few relatively balanced options and use the ones they like. As you just pointed out. There's a small handful of things he can do each turn. That's easy to play, hard to master.

 

[Aldarc]

any player casual enough to want to refer to cheat sheets (as opposed to reading the rulebook) would probably be intimidated by such sheets

...which has not been the case in my own experience.

 

[FrogReaver]

Right, but none of those options are hard. New players don't have to make the optimial decision point each time, they just need a few relatively balanced options and use the ones they like. As you just pointed out. There's a small handful of things he can do each turn. That's easy to play, hard to master.

Heck, a 5e battlemaster fighter at level 5 has just as many choices per turn as most any 2e path finder character.

Do I dash, doge, disengage, attack, pull the lever, put on my shield, search for the hidden enemy etc. If I attack action do I make an attack or a shove or a grapple. If I attack with the attack action do I expend a maneuver? If so which maneuver? After all that is said and done do I action surge and what action do I use with the action surge? Do I use the -5/+10 ability. Do I move away from the enemy and take the OA?

If you drill down into the individual choices on a turn even 5e is pretty complicated. It even gets more complicated as you get more attacks with the attack action and must decide which to use.