D&D General Are You Ready For A "New" D&D?

[Jer]

Indeed. Whether things will stay this way is more of an open question. I'd be extremely unsurprised if 1D&D gradually accumulated minor changes to default methods to suit VTT play better.

Maybe. I actually expect that IF Wizards plans for a VTT come to fruition (a very big if IMHO) then the game will change even more slowly over time than it is now. Because making even minor changes to large scale software projects is a lot harder than tweaking rules in a text format. And the rules that do change will be as you say ones to make it slightly more easy for the VTT folks to implement in code, rather than ones that impact the play experience at the table.

 

[tetrasodium]

I agree. The only way the VTT team is having input is if there's some particular rule that they're finding hard to put into the game. Mostly I'd expect that to be clarification on spells where the language is unclear (though those all generally have some errata or Sage Advice ruling clarifying them, so likely they're working from that).

I actually think that it's mostly the D&D team driving this change. Because of the 50th anniversary they have to have a new printing of the books and so it's time to get their own little tweaks and changes out there. I don't expect anything radical to come of it, and in fact I suspect they'll get a bit of pushback on a lot of the "little things" they're pushing because players don't see the inconsistencies as problems to the degree that a designer does.

There's a second category that should generate input even beyond that. Specifically "is this fun". VTTs provide a different set of limitations & capabilities than non VTT play. For example "Is this fun if some most or all of the group has 120ft+ vision while those PCs are spread out on a shared screen giving players 300-600ft vision in every direction?" or "what if some of those PCs also have the ability to say "I ignore cover""edit:"what if they have xxx attack range"

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I want to get a new edition with a rewrite. I would love for it to be more 4e based

 

[nevin]

I have everything I need to play D&D.

"New" is overrated. I'm running 5E now, and it's...fine. Not my favorite, but it's the version all of my players are most familiar with, and it's flexible enough to bend in any direction we need. It'll do.

There are better editions out there, though. If I leave 5E, it'll be to go backward, not forward. They haven't topped the gameplay and feel of the red-box Basic Set, IMO, despite almost 40 years of effort.


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I mostly agree. I think the desperate cycle to create a new edition every 5 or so years will be what eventually breaks DND. And the idea that AI DM's will save it is silly. Since AI is just smart scripts not actual intelligence it'll be like playing a video game. Don't get me wrong there's good money there but I think most people that roleplay are trying to get away from the video game and have something deeper. I suspect that a huge portion of DND's success is it get's people playing with other humans and in this day and age of smart phones and computer distractions that makes it something different.

 

[Jer]

I mostly agree. I think the desperate cycle to create a new edition every 5 or so years will be what eventually breaks DND.

I mean, this time we're going on 10 years since the last edition, which is pretty good. I think only 2e had a longer lifespan (by 1 year) and that was partly because TSR went bankrupt towards the end of it and couldn't have put out a new edition even if they'd wanted to. IIRC Wizards started working on one as soon as they acquired D&D in '97. (And honestly the smart move right now would be to NOT put out a new edition but there's a 50th anniversary next year and the Demon Prince of Round Numbers must be fed...)

And the idea that AI DM's will save it is silly. Since AI is just smart scripts not actual intelligence it'll be like playing a video game. Don't get me wrong there's good money there but I think most people that roleplay are trying to get away from the video game and have something deeper. I suspect that a huge portion of DND's success is it get's people playing with other humans and in this day and age of smart phones and computer distractions that makes it something different.

This is my experience with the younger players I've taught the game to. They don't want to play online, they want to play in person. They don't want to play with strangers, they want to play with friends. They aren't interested in having a VTT do all of the work for them because if they want to play an online game with friends they can play any number of multiplayer games.

I think an AI DM would actually mostly be a benefit for older established players who can't find a DM and don't want to DM themselves. That's where the demand for an AI DM is mostly going to be felt. In the "growth" areas of "pulling new players in" the fact that D&D is an in person experience is actually one of its stronger selling points IMO and something that differentiates it from other entertainment choices people could be making.

 

[Micah Sweet]

5e is the perfect DnD foundation for me. And over the years I've been gradually more disappointed as nothing ever got build onto that foundation. It's basically just been 9 years of subclass/species spam, and that's it.

I just want 5e with more GM tools/support and a few more classes. But it seems that's never going to happen.

Not from WotC, seemingly. But several 3pps have gone a long way towards doing what you're looking for, IMO.

One in particular. You know the one I mean.

 

[nevin]

I think an AI DM would actually mostly be a benefit for older established players who can't find a DM and don't want to DM themselves. That's where the demand for an AI DM is mostly going to be felt. In the "growth" areas of "pulling new players in" the fact that D&D is an in person experience is actually one of its stronger selling points IMO and something that differentiates it from other entertainment choices people could be making.

maybe but I think most of those players will just play an mmo.

 

[tetrasodium]

This is my experience with the younger players I've taught the game to. They don't want to play online, they want to play in person. They don't want to play with strangers, they want to play with friends. They aren't interested in having a VTT do all of the work for them because if they want to play an online game with friends they can play any number of multiplayer games.

I think an AI DM would actually mostly be a benefit for older established players who can't find a DM and don't want to DM themselves. That's where the demand for an AI DM is mostly going to be felt. In the "growth" areas of "pulling new players in" the fact that D&D is an in person experience is actually one of its stronger selling points IMO and something that differentiates it from other entertainment choices people could be making.

I ran weekly AL games long enough that I can easily claim a few(maybe several) hundred hours of time as an AL GM. It's a soul crushing activity that shines a spotlight on the worst aspects of the way 5e as a system fails to support gm's in order to give free reign to the worst elements of problem players. It might work well in the short& medium term but ultimately it pushes the most involved gm's to other systems or just out of the hobby entirely.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think the desperate cycle to create a new edition every 5 or so years will be what eventually breaks DND.

I think 3e being a whole new platform (the d20 system) was brilliant.
I liked 4e even if I think it needed more polishing
I put up with 5e, but feel it steps back tomany ways.

CHangeing the system, updating to meet the times IS D&D to me

 

[nevin]

Maybe. I actually expect that IF Wizards plans for a VTT come to fruition (a very big if IMHO) then the game will change even more slowly over time than it is now. Because making even minor changes to large scale software projects is a lot harder than tweaking rules in a text format. And the rules that do change will be as you say ones to make it slightly more easy for the VTT folks to implement in code, rather than ones that impact the play experience at the table.

this actually is the first thing i've read that makes me want it to be successful. Maybe if they make enough money with that they'll quit putting out new editions.