Armor & Coins - please, No.

[IanB]

Very good points. But again, having correctly identified the problem as "No meaningful choice" and still not convinced the answer is to throw away the meaningless choices, versus giving them some meaning.

But that's not what has happened here. Several of the "meaningless" choices are still in the rules; you can wear chain and scale and hide armor in 4e. All that has happened is a bit of streamlining.

 

[Orius]

Of course, balancing the game for MMO play is a bigger concern, and many RPGA needs no doubt can piggy-back onto those changes.

(Yes, I said MMO-- nobody freak out. There's nothing wrong with wanting to see D&D as a successful electronic brand.)

There's no real problem with that. One big source of revenue from the D&D property is electronic gaming. When done well, D&D games become very popular (the Gold Box games, Black Isle's Infinity Engine Games, NWN, etc.) One problem has always been translating the rules into a video game in a way that worked well, and not every game did this. If the designers have set up the rules in a way that makes them easier to port into an electronic game, then there's nothing wrong with that, especially if the game ends up selling more units than the rules themselves (which isn't inconceivable).

 

[delericho]

Hmm, I think that was the same as the Basic rules.

In the Basic rules, encumberance was counted in 'coins'. There may have been a note to the effect that "10 coins = 1 pound", but I don't remember one. That said, I no longer have access to my Basic set, and it was a long time ago that I last read it.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Basic D&D measured encumbrance in "coins", with 1 coin being a measure of weight and handling at the same time. For a weight comparison, 1 coin was set to be 1/10th of a pound. For example, Plate had an encumbrance of, if I remember correctly, 600 coins.

 

[green slime]

Starleather, spiritmail, godplate

Astral Diamonds!

Cool! Great stuff! Just what I need! Finally some ideas I can get behind.

Shame I won't be investing heavily in 4e, regardless....

I'll play, but I won't get in DM-mode.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Basic D&D measured encumbrance in "coins", with 1 coin being a measure of weight and handling at the same time. For a weight comparison, 1 coin was set to be 1/10th of a pound. For example, Plate had an encumbrance of, if I remember correctly, 600 coins.

Yeah, Basic D&D and 1e AD&D used the same coin/lb conversion rate.

A'koss: I just think that 1.6 oz coins are ridiculous. That's a LOT of gold, silver, or what have you, and models neither a historical coin nor a sufficiently granular measurement unit to be worthwhile.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

But that's not what has happened here. Several of the "meaningless" choices are still in the rules; you can wear chain and scale and hide armor in 4e. All that has happened is a bit of streamlining.

A bit too much in my opinion, that's all.

I think there's an interesting niche for medium armor (simulationist thinking here) that isn't being adequately addressed by the mechanics (gamist thinking here).

I almost wonder if in fact we'll see medium armor in some form come back to the game at the same time we get barbarians and druids, half-orcs and other "savage" races.

 

[Zaruthustran]

A bit too much in my opinion, that's all.

I think there's an interesting niche for medium armor (simulationist thinking here) that isn't being adequately addressed by the mechanics (gamist thinking here).

Can you elaborate? You're a designer, and I enjoyed your story hour; I'm interested in what you've got in mind.

Quick couple of points:

1. Medium armor is in 4E (simulationist thinking). Hide is in, and so is chainmail.
2. I don't see a mechanics gap (gamist thinking) that needs to be filled by an entire new category of armor. Light armor gives a small AC bump and lets you use your Dex bonus, while heavy armor gives a big AC bump and doesn't let you use your Dex bonus. Is there a need for anything else? What would medium armor do?

 

[Lizard]

Is there a need for anything else? What would medium armor do?

Give a moderate bump and let you use half your dex bonus.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Give a moderate bump and let you use half your dex bonus.

You beat me to it.

EDIT: I always thought it was nice that there was an optimal configuration of armor+DEX that provided equal AC no matter what route you went.

Without actually crunching the numbers at all, I'd like to push out the heavy armor (and attendant check penalties) at about the same pace that the light armor guys are pushing up their DEX.

Ideally, everybody starts at about 4-6 points of armor/DEX and everybody reaches the ideal, optimal limit at about the same time (9, 10 points, maybe as high as 15 a la AU/AE).

In a normal 3e campaign that would have economic implications-- you can't simply make plate mail "fit" a 9th level PCs budget.

But in a points of light setting, it's much more workable:

You simply can't find plate armor in the Two Rivers, but you might find chainmail in Whitebridge and full plate Caemlyn.

DM Fiat is great. Bring it on, 4e.