Artificers, a general (positive) rant

[jasin]

I'll be playing one this weekend, so I've been checking out what one can
do, both right at the start, and at higher levels.

My first thought about the whole concept was that being an expert item
creator is a useful but an extremely un-sexy party role, since it
doesn't really give any true spotlight time. Sure, the fighter might
only be able to kill the dragon because of that +5 dragonbane sword you
made... but it's still the fighter who killed the dragon.

After seeing the infusion list, the class seemed quite a bit better.
Weapon and armour augmentation are nice: being able to add the
appropriate bane or energy resistance property to your and your allies'
stuff on the spot is pretty neat.

Metamagic spell trigger class ability can make you a hideous blaster, if
you've got money to burn. Metamagic item and power surge infusions and
the cheap item creation feats help cut the costs a bit, but it still
seems prohibitively expensive to specialize in wand-blasting.

Because of metamagic spell trigger, NPC artificers might suffer (or
enjoy, depending on perspective ) form the same overpoweredness I've
seen people attribute to psions: when cornered (as D&D villains often
are) both can unload a frightening amount of punishment. Imagine what a
7th-level artificer with Quicken Spell, Maximize Spell and a CL 5th wand
of fireball can do to a 7th-level party, if he goes all out. Two
Maximized fireballs per round. Sure, he'll burn the whole wand in the
rounds, but that's better off than being XP on the party's sheets.

But what sold me on the class are skill enhancement and spell storing
item infusions. The versatility is just incredible! Being able to spend
a 1st level slot to use any skill at roughly cross-class maximum or cast
any spell of 4th-level or lower makes the artificer a true jack-of-all-
trades. Despite the flavour text, a bard is actually a pretty
specialized morale officer/socialite/enchanter, but the artificer is a
true Compleat Adventurer. Given a minute or two (and some XP to burn)
the artificer can knock locks open, scry on people, remove diseases and
curses, send out animal messengers, dimension door the whole party
through obstacles... even reincarnate fallen party members!


So... has anyone played an artificer? What did you do in combat: blast
with wands, buff self then melee, buff self than snipe, buff others...?
What are everyones' thoughts on the spell storing item infusion? Is it
too abusable?

 

[Henry]

I've seen our Artificer player pull out some pretty hysterical tricks, even at only 5th level, and spell-storing item is an awesome one indeed. His favorite is to load up on scorching rays in his staff, dagger, etc. before wading into hazardous situations. But he has so far:

--made a cloak of charisma for the party cleric/wilder
--imbued bane on more weapons than I can count
--helped save the cleric/wilder from falling into an abyss with a timely web spell

Of course the favor was returned when the party cut a cursed burrowing scarab out of his skin and prevented him from dying.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Given a minute or two (and some XP to burn)
the artificer can knock locks open, scry on people, remove diseases and
curses, send out animal messengers, dimension door the whole party
through obstacles... even reincarnate fallen party members!

The time and XP (and gp, when making magic items) is a HUGE limitation. Bards are indeed the Jacks of All Trades- because they can do lots of things, whenever they want. An Artificer, although they can make any magic item and whatnot, has to spend XP. It doesn't seem like much, but when you're making four items at a time into one-shot wands of Fireball, it adds up. And at higher levels, you're going to be a level or two behind everyone else. Like I said, it doesn't seem like much, but it adds up quickly. At times I'd much rather be a Bard with less abilities but unlimited uses than an Artificer with insane abilities that all sap XP.

Also, I don't think Spell Storing Item is very overpowered. It takes a minute to use, so when time is a big issue, it isn't going to be much help. Also, at higher levels the XP cost gets a bit ridiculous if you use it often.

Oh, and one more thing- true, an Artificer with Quicken Spell and Maximize Spell and a wand of Fireball would be nasty- IF you could apply more than one Metamagic Feat to a wand at a time. And there's nothing saying you can, and considering the power of being able to do so, I think it's a safe ruling to say that they can't. Also, the Artificer has to spend both of those feats- feats that he isn't going to be getting much use out of aside from using wands. I doubt you'll see many Repair Light Damages being Maximized, and consider they cast spontaneously, Quicken Spell is out of the question for Infusions. And if he wants to be good at making items, he isn't going to be having a million feats to spend on Metamagic Feats to begin with.

I'm currently playing an Artificer (at 15th level, I believe) and I love the class- mainly because I like being able to make magic items. I'm definitely not the damage-dealer of the party, however, and by this point in the game, I'm one full level behind everyone else. True, I've got more magic items than everyone, but at times I'd rather be the same level as everyone else than the level I'm at.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Because of metamagic spell trigger, NPC artificers might suffer (or
enjoy, depending on perspective ) form the same overpoweredness I've
seen people attribute to psions: when cornered (as D&D villains often
are) both can unload a frightening amount of punishment. Imagine what a
7th-level artificer with Quicken Spell, Maximize Spell and a CL 5th wand
of fireball can do to a 7th-level party, if he goes all out.

A 7th-level psion could only Maximize a 1st-level power, and it'll deal at most 10 damage. There's that metacap that almost no one knows about

 

[jasin]

The time and XP (and gp, when making magic items) is a HUGE limitation. Bards are indeed the Jacks of All Trades- because they can do lots of things, whenever they want.

Not really. The bard picks his skills and spells known, and then they're set. And even looking at his whole selection, it hardly covers all trades. Bard is a jack-of-enchantment-and-social-interaction, not -all-trades.

OTOH, an artificer with one 1st-level slot free can give himself any skill at about cross-class maximum in 1 minute. Or he can cast any spell that a sorcerer of his level would have access to... from any list. Without preparation.

An Artificer, although they can make any magic item and whatnot, has to spend XP. It doesn't seem like much, but when you're making four items at a time into one-shot wands of Fireball, it adds up.

I don't think using spell storing items for fireballs is such a great idea. It's OK, but your hearts desire is to cast fireballs, you might as well have played a sorcerer.

I think SSI is best used out of combat, for all those neat utility spells nobody prepares since they're not sure if they'll get to use them, so they prepare divine power and fireball and haste instead. A locked door? The artificer can whip up a knock ring. Someone got diseased? The artificer can make a remove disease pill. Want to see what's down that stairwell? The artificer can make clairvoyance mirror.

And at higher levels, you're going to be a level or two behind everyone else.

Whoah! A level or two!?

SSI is spell level x caster level. That means you'd have to cast 1000 levels worth of spells for SSI castings to eat up a level. That's 250 spells if you only cast maximum level (4th) spells.

Even with non-artificer item creators, I have never found the XP cost so great as to set the character back significantly. And unlike others, artificers have their craft reserve.

Lastly, under 3.5/FRCS XP rules, even if you do fall behind, you should catch up relatively quickly.

Like I said, it doesn't seem like much, but it adds up quickly. At times I'd much rather be a Bard with less abilities but unlimited uses than an Artificer with insane abilities that all sap XP.

Bards can hardly be said to have unlimited uses of their abilities. They do have a limit on spells and bardic music usages per day, after all.

Also, I don't think Spell Storing Item is very overpowered. It takes a minute to use, so when time is a big issue, it isn't going to be much help. Also, at higher levels the XP cost gets a bit ridiculous if you use it often.

I don't really see it. For the most expensive spells, SSI costs 4 x your level in XP. That's 1/250 of a level.

I'm not really saying it's overpowered. I hope it's not, since I like the idea, and plan on playing an artificer, and I want it to work out. As I've said, it's one of the main attractions of the class for me, being able to jury-rig an appropriate spell for practically any situation, given 1 minute.

But I would say that it's the casting time that's the main balancing factor, not the XP cost.

 

[Scion]

A 7th-level psion could only Maximize a 1st-level power, and it'll deal at most 10 damage. There's that metacap that almost no one knows about

Actually, maximize only adds 4 pp for psions, they also have to expend focus.. so that 7th level guy could do a 30 point blast (will negates, mind effecting, single target).

Or if we want to be silly, then maximized matter agitation.. over the course of 70 rounds of concentration one could deal 68d6 + d4 +1 to a 2'x2' section of a creature (maximized 413 damage)

 

[Chaldfont]

I'm currently playing a multiclassed rogue-2/artificer-1 (I intend on balancing the levels). This character is in a party with a warforged fighter-3 and a gnome cleric-2.

Here are fun things I have been able to do:

• Use wands: I have about a fifty-fifty chance now that I took Magical Aptitude feat. I have web and magic missile. And it's really nice to be able to use the clerics CLW wand when he goes down (like when he was grappled and choked into unconsciousness by a mercenary!).
• Identify potions: Roll a DC 25 Spellcraft. I have a +10.
• Make and use scrolls: It's hard to make them in the middle of the game, but having a zillion detect magic scrolls is pretty handy.
• Cast identify!!!!
• Use weapon augmentation, personal to add the bane ability to my crossbow. With three infusions, I am the ultimate sniper: sneak attack + bane + shocking + cold (1d8 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 3 damage). Hehe, now if I could only hit (I don't have Precise Shot).
• Gain +2 to search, disable device, open lock, jump, climb, even sense motive! Skill enhancement infusion is great.

Sometimes the UMD checks are pretty hard so I took Magical Aptitude at 3rd level. I also have Action Boost (d8s for action points) to help out.

 

[Targos]

The time and XP (and gp, when making magic items) is a HUGE limitation. .

Don't forget about the craft reserve. That can alleviate the XP demand. It doesn't help the time and cash needed, but there's feats for that. Many infusions take more than a round to cast, but an action point can be used to make it a round. Metamagic spell trigger I'm sure is nice, but when it comes to quickening one still has the draw the wand. Although the artificer is primarily a support role, if they have enough time and money I'm sure they can change that with all the items they can craft.

 

[xazil]

Having played a warforged Artificer from 6th up to 12th level so far I can say they follow the normal buffing rules as a class. Give them a bit of time and knowledge of what they face they can increase the party effectiveness a large amount, if thats not the case then they are little more than a wand slinger that might stand in for a trap based rogue. Although my high con, admantine body warforged can stand in combat a bit as well when buffed.

The only limitation we have so far is that despite normally allowing stuff from all SRD books, allowing a level 5 artificer access to the +5 armor affect that gives DR 15/magic is just a touch too powerful at lower levels.

 

[jRocket]

If you take the legendary artisan and extraordinary artisan feats 4 times each, you can make magic items for free, without XP cost.