Arwend Setting magic System

[Pyrex]

Okay, so for the Divine Spellcaster do we agree that the DSP's Faith total should remain the same (Wis Mod + CL), and that the Faith Cleck should remain the same (DC: 15 + (spell level * 2)), but that the DSP incurs an ablative penalty to her Faith for every spell attempt equal to (Lesser Spells=1, Greater Spells * Lesser Spells meta-magic'ed above L4=2)? And that teh DSP can burn the difference between her faith check and the target DC (or in the case of no-roll-needed, the price of the spell; Lesser or Greater) to fire the spell?

WisMod+CL*2.

30 Faith (10WisMod+20CL) vs DC 33 @ 20th level just doesn't cut it.

40 Faith (10WisMod+20CL*2) vs DC 33 @ 20th seems more reasonable.

What if, for the sorcerer, we break down Learning new spells AND casting spells using the S/C/E mechanic?
For Learning a new spell, the check could be DC: 15 + Spell level * (1=simple, 2=complex, 3=exotic). Optionally, we could give him a +1 cumulative mod to the learn roll for every time he studies teh same spell being cast. Thoughts on both parts of this?

For Casting a spell, the check could be DC: 15 + (spell level * (2=simple, 3=complex, 4=exotic))

Hmm. Can you give me a few examples of what spells qualify for which bucket? My gut feeling would be that PHBSpells = {Simple, Complex} and, say SpellCompendiumSpells = {Complex, Exotic}, but that's pretty random.

Especially for casting, the gap seems huge. I don't think there's any 4th level spell so weird/wacky/rare/powerful that it deserves to be as hard to cast as an 8th level spell.

 

[Wolv0rine]

WisMod+CL*2.

30 Faith (10WisMod+20CL) vs DC 33 @ 20th level just doesn't cut it.

40 Faith (10WisMod+20CL*2) vs DC 33 @ 20th seems more reasonable.

It suddenly occurs to me (and it's my fault, I didn't write the equation quite properly)... are you calculating it rightly?
For example, if you are a L5 Cleric with a +3 Wis Mod... are you doing this:
.....3+(5*2)=13, or...
.....3+5 *2=16.
The second is what I intended with the equation. I should have written it as (Wis Mod+Caster Level) * 2. *suffles feet self-consciously)

Hmm. Can you give me a few examples of what spells qualify for which bucket? My gut feeling would be that PHBSpells = {Simple, Complex} and, say SpellCompendiumSpells = {Complex, Exotic}, but that's pretty random.

Especially for casting, the gap seems huge. I don't think there's any 4th level spell so weird/wacky/rare/powerful that it deserves to be as hard to cast as an 8th level spell.

Hmm, I'm having a bear of a time finding my copy of Arcana Unearthed, so that's making it tough to give some examples of Simple, Complex, and Exotic spells. I had meant to break down the SRD spell list into the 3 categories, but never got around to it.
Someone who's stronger on their AU knowledge could possily walk in here and give us something more to work on, but if I had to give examples of SRD spells that are S/C/E would be pure judgement call. Shield & Read Magic are basic enough to be simple, Major Image & Gaseous Form I'd call complex, Magic Jar & Wish I'd call exotic. But those are such completely random choices.

 

[Pyrex]

It suddenly occurs to me (and it's my fault, I didn't write the equation quite properly)... are you calculating it rightly?
For example, if you are a L5 Cleric with a +3 Wis Mod... are you doing this:
.....3+(5*2)=13, or...
.....3+5 *2=16.
The second is what I intended with the equation. I should have written it as (Wis Mod+Caster Level) * 2. *suffles feet self-consciously)

I left out the parends intentionally. WisMod+(CasterLevel*2) is the value I was using for my calculations.

Mathmatically speaking, WisMod+CL*2 is equivalent to WisMod+(CL*2), the parends are completely superflous.

If you instead want to double everything, the parends are definatly required -> (WisMod+CL)*2

I guess that explains why I was having trouble reconciling your math with mine; I assumed you were writing yours correctly.

(No offense intended, but after 20 or 30 math credits in college it never even occured to me that your order of operations wasn't exactly what you intended)

 

[Wolv0rine]

I left out the parends intentionally. WisMod+(CasterLevel*2) is the value I was using for my calculations.

Mathmatically speaking, WisMod+CL*2 is equivalent to WisMod+(CL*2), the parends are completely superflous.

If you instead want to double everything, the parends are definatly required -> (WisMod+CL)*2

I guess that explains why I was having trouble reconciling your math with mine; I assumed you were writing yours correctly.

(No offense intended, but after 20 or 30 math credits in college it never even occured to me that your order of operations wasn't exactly what you intended)

LOL
Actually I have Dyscalculia, so math credits are pretty much outside of my range. However, I'm usually more careful around my parends if only because of the time I spent as a younger man playing Champions. Calculations I usually do well, it's math I can't fathom.

But yeah, the (StatMod+CL) portion is the core equation, the *2 is to bolster it and make it a little more respectable because when you start working out examples you're hit with the glaring fact that the core equation gives relatively tiny results, regardless of it being a wonderfully self-scaling mechanic.

 

[Wolv0rine]

I'm not letting the thread up and die on, just have my hands full with RL stuff.

 

[Wolv0rine]

Pyrex: Something that occured to me while I was trying to compile the changes discussed so far... RE: The Sorcerer; had you thought to take the Optional Spellcasting Fatigue rules into cinsideration? While they don't exactly provide a penalty to the Sor's casting check, they do provide a very definate reason to limit oneself in one's casting.

I had actually strongly, strongly considered pulling the "Optional" from it, and making it a core part of the system.

 

[Pyrex]

Any drawback that can be nullified with a Wand of Cure Light Wounds is not a meaningful drawback. While it does improve balance slightly, my gut feeling is that it isn't worth the additional paperwork.

*goes and reads updated 1st post*

Ok, we're reaching the point where classes are more internally consistent.

Clerics & Wizards both have less-than half the daily spellcasting capacity of their RAW counterparts, but also have vastly improved spell-access, which presumably fits the campaign feel you're going for. I'm still worried about Clr/Wiz characters having enough gas for the typical 4encounter/day d&d assumes, but they can't justifiably be given more capacity without significantly reducing their spell-access, so, *shrug*.

Sorcerers are still ahead of Wizards on both capacity and access, so there's still work to do there.

Have you taken a look at the variant I posted in post 26 that removes Spellcraft from the equation and uses a Cha penalty as the fatigue mechanic?