D&D General Asian D&D

5e is hugely popular in Japan. Let me refer to this thread.

Updating it for the recently released 2022 numbers, it shows

1. D&D (all editions) 286 games
2. Shadowrun (all editions) 120 games
3. Sword World (all editions) 116 games
4. Pathfinder 108 games (I believe this is 1st Ed., as there is no translation of 2nd Ed.)
5. Call of Cthulhu 105 games

Once an official localization of 5e was produced in 2017, it immediately became one of the most commonly played games, second only to the Cthulhu fad. And now that the fad has subsided, it's on top again. While the above groups all editions of D&D together, as of 2020, when editions were listed separately, 5e was 100s of games ahead of the next closest edition, 4e.
A Gaming cafe. Singular. One. With a largely unknown clientele that may favor expatriates and foreigners.

So, given that we have some actual numbers now, see below, and D&D and 5e are doing pretty well. Does that change or ideas at all? You seem to have a good handle on the market, even if you were wrong about D&D's popularity, so I would be interested in your thoughts.

There's also a couple of other things to consider about the information provided from the Daydream cafe website:

1) Sheer quantity of games.
D&D was tops with around 200ish games from 2010 to 2012. 213 it slipped behind Sword World, but it got back on top in 2015. Then C'thulu came in and set the record for games played at 313 sessions in 216. Then 468 sessions in 2017. Their business REALLY took off at that point. In 2018 it hit 714, then 769 in 2019! There were 134 different games being played and Call of C'thulu was only one of them.

In 2019, the second and third place games had more total players than the top ranked game which had broken all records. D&D 5e broke it's record that year and -every- other D&D's record in that place the same year. You put 4-10 together and they beat Call of C'thulhu, too. Absolute BANNER YEAR for the company. More games than have ever run in the store. And 2021 would see 156!

This ties down to point 4, but first:

2) Covid.
2020 saw a massive decline in total games played, much less games played in Call of C'thulhu. And in 2021 it dropped even further. They combined all of their D&D versions into a single category that year so it would inflate the number 1 position a bit. Same thing in 2022 with 286 total games. And their Online GM? Well...

3) The Employees Preferences.
Hiroko Ueno
GMs Ruin Breakers, Insane, and 5e. She wants to play Insane, Embryo Machin, Cthulhu, Goblin Slayer, Sword World 2/2.5, Fallen World, Fiasco, Labyrinth Kingdom, Ryuutama, and Long Horizon. D&D isn't on the list of games she wants to play in. Quail doesn't include D&D in his recommended systems, GM Systems, or show interest in D&D. He does only play 11 other games, though. Okumi Makimura includes D&D in the 48 games he's "Good At" and his standing table systems don't include it among the 19 games he's ready to play at the drop of a hat. Shiori Miyane has 5e D&D among her specialty systems, but also lists 13 other game systems she can GM at the drop of a hat. And finally Rionose doesn't actually do D&D at all out of the 20 games they run and play. Then there's Magic Cat their Online GM who puts D&D at the top of their systems! Then Pathfinder. Then 25 additional games.

This shows there's a lot more variety in what people like due to the massive quantity of games that are not D&D in Japan that are popular but not quite so singular. How many DMs do you know in the US who are comfortable with running 12 systems? 20 systems? 48+ Systems?

Also: Remember how there were 134 different games played at the company in 2019? Remember how 4-10 had more than Call of Cthulhu and there were another 120 games beyond them that were also played? Well...

4) The Publishers.
Out of alllllll the games listed only D&D is published by WotC. Most of the rest are published by... Group SNE, Kadokawa, and a handful of small time publishers. (And several of those small time publishers are subsidiaries of Kadokawa)

Index of Group SNE's currently supported game brands, not including editions and individual scenario books: 製品情報 - 株式会社グループSNE

It's hard to find Kadokawa's list because their investor site is just a few highlights of their videogames including Elden Ring. Because yes. Kadokawa does boatloads of videogames, mountains of manga and visual novels, and magazines, and comics, and has their own storefronts across Japan, and a freaking MUSEUM. But here's a listing of their Main Consolidated Subsidiaries...


And it's Kadokawa Futures that does most of their TTRPG publishing.

5) Summation
There's no denying D&D is the top of the list in this cafe, for sure. And if you're -just- looking at the games played by individual game, it's one of the most popular. The issue rises when you look at the Market. 'Cause while D&D shows up on the pie as the biggest slice for a few years, WotC's slice of the pie is significantly smaller than Group SNE's or Kadokawa's. (Especially since Call of Cthulu is done through Kadokawa in Japan)... in that -one- cafe.

And, again, this is a single cafe. Looking at the broader market...


In 2021, Kadokawa announced that they'd sold more Call of Cthulu (300,000 copies since 2004, 60,000 of 7th edition since it was released in 2020) than D&D had sold in Japan, total. So D&D has sold less than 300,000 books in Japan since 2004 if Kadokawa's bragging is to be believed.

Meanwhile over in Sword World RPG:


10 million copies. Though in fairness that includes Replays and light novels and is recorded since 1989. And Record of Lodoss War has similar sales numbers.

6) History and Context
Kamiab Ghorbanpour explains it really well here: Exploring Sword World, Japan’s answer to Dungeons & Dragons from the studio behind the Elden Ring tabletop RPG

But the short version?

D&D made it to Japan in the early to mid 70s and was mildly popular, mostly thanks to foreign college students. Roy Mizuno ran his Lodoss War campaign and it was so popular that it wound up getting replays in Comptiq magazine (A Computer magazine) as an amusing aside in 1986. Roy took that success and created a Manga series, then a movie, then a TV series. (Published and Produced, respectively, by Kadokawa Shoten)

Hitoshi Yasuda put together Group SNE with the intention of doing more with RoLW but didn't want to get tied up with TSR who had created D&D. So he created a slightly different "Lodoss War" game. It was built on Japanese Sensibilities using the AD&D system as a baseline, so some rules were changed, some stuff drastically altered.

But then he went back and did a little reworking to file those D&D serial numbers off a bit harder. More "Dragon Quest" and "Final Fantasy" style stuff was added to make it more Japanese and less American... and it became Sword World which was a MASSIVE hit with high schoolers. Runaway success! It's practically the basis of the "Japanese Fantasy World" that you see in almost every anime and manga made into a TTRPG.

And the whole thing is based on d6s. Making it "Easier" than a d20 centric multi-polyhedral game. But then Shinwa went out of business... And they were the ones providing D&D to Japan, which made it practically impossible to find materials right around the same time TSR went nuts on flinging out so many books it isn't funny and murdered their own business. It lead to the "Winter of TTRPGs" in Japan that would last into the aughts.

Then Sword World 2.0 hit in 2008 and reignited the country's enjoyment of TTRPGs. Replay books and -videos- basically Critical Role'd Japan years before Mercer got the idea.

Sword World is bigger in Japan than D&D for a simple reason: It is D&D. But it's Japanese D&D. And while WotC can try to make D&D more Japanese, they're fighting against 30+ years of a dominant product in the market.

D&D had sold less than 300,000 copies as of Q1 2021. Unless they managed to sell a few million copies in the last two years... Sword World is the dominant force.
 
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A Gaming cafe. Singular. One. With a largely unknown clientele that may favor expatriates and foreigners.



There's also a couple of other things to consider about the information provided from the Daydream cafe website:

1) Sheer quantity of games.
D&D was tops with around 200ish games from 2010 to 2012. 213 it slipped behind Sword World, but it got back on top in 2015. Then C'thulu came in and set the record for games played at 313 sessions in 216. Then 468 sessions in 2017. Their business REALLY took off at that point. In 2018 it hit 714, then 769 in 2019! There were 134 different games being played and Call of C'thulu was only one of them.

In 2019, the second and third place games had more total players than the top ranked game which had broken all records. D&D 5e broke it's record that year and -every- other D&D's record in that place the same year. You put 4-10 together and they beat Call of C'thulhu, too. Absolute BANNER YEAR for the company. More games than have ever run in the store. And 2021 would see 156!

This ties down to point 4, but first:

2) Covid.
2020 saw a massive decline in total games played, much less games played in Call of C'thulhu. And in 2021 it dropped even further. They combined all of their D&D versions into a single category that year so it would inflate the number 1 position a bit. Same thing in 2022 with 286 total games. And their Online GM? Well...

3) The Employees Preferences.
Hiroko Ueno
GMs Ruin Breakers, Insane, and 5e. She wants to play Insane, Embryo Machin, Cthulhu, Goblin Slayer, Sword World 2/2.5, Fallen World, Fiasco, Labyrinth Kingdom, Ryuutama, and Long Horizon. D&D isn't on the list of games she wants to play in. Quail doesn't include D&D in his recommended systems, GM Systems, or show interest in D&D. He does only play 11 other games, though. Okumi Makimura includes D&D in the 48 games he's "Good At" and his standing table systems don't include it among the 19 games he's ready to play at the drop of a hat. Shiori Miyane has 5e D&D among her specialty systems, but also lists 13 other game systems she can GM at the drop of a hat. And finally Rionose doesn't actually do D&D at all out of the 20 games they run and play. Then there's Magic Cat their Online GM who puts D&D at the top of their systems! Then Pathfinder. Then 25 additional games.

This shows there's a lot more variety in what people like due to the massive quantity of games that are not D&D in Japan that are popular but not quite so singular. How many DMs do you know in the US who are comfortable with running 12 systems? 20 systems? 48+ Systems?

Also: Remember how there were 134 different games played at the company in 2019? Remember how 4-10 had more than Call of Cthulhu and there were another 120 games beyond them that were also played? Well...

4) The Publishers.
Out of alllllll the games listed only D&D is published by WotC. Most of the rest are published by... Group SNE, Kadokawa, and a handful of small time publishers. (And several of those small time publishers are subsidiaries of Kadokawa)

Index of Group SNE's currently supported game brands, not including editions and individual scenario books: 製品情報 - 株式会社グループSNE

It's hard to find Kadokawa's list because their investor site is just a few highlights of their videogames including Elden Ring. Because yes. Kadokawa does boatloads of videogames, mountains of manga and visual novels, and magazines, and comics, and has their own storefronts across Japan, and a freaking MUSEUM. But here's a listing of their Main Consolidated Subsidiaries...


And it's Kadokawa Futures that does most of their TTRPG publishing.

5) Summation
There's no denying D&D is the top of the list in this cafe, for sure. And if you're -just- looking at the games played by individual game, it's one of the most popular. The issue rises when you look at the Market. 'Cause while D&D shows up on the pie as the biggest slice for a few years, WotC's slice of the pie is significantly smaller than Group SNE's or Kadokawa's. (Especially since Call of Cthulu is done through Kadokawa in Japan)... in that -one- cafe.

And, again, this is a single cafe. Looking at the broader market...


In 2021, Kadokawa announced that they'd sold more Call of Cthulu (300,000 copies since 2004, 60,000 of 7th edition since it was released in 2020) than D&D had sold in Japan, total. So D&D has sold less than 300,000 books in Japan since 2004 if Kadokawa's bragging is to be believed.

Meanwhile over in Sword World RPG:


10 million copies. Though in fairness that includes Replays and light novels and is recorded since 1989. And Record of Lodoss War has similar sales numbers.

6) History and Context
Kamiab Ghorbanpour explains it really well here: Exploring Sword World, Japan’s answer to Dungeons & Dragons from the studio behind the Elden Ring tabletop RPG

But the short version?

D&D made it to Japan in the early to mid 70s and was mildly popular, mostly thanks to foreign college students. Roy Mizuno ran his Lodoss War campaign and it was so popular that it wound up getting replays in Comptiq magazine (A Computer magazine) as an amusing aside in 1986. Roy took that success and created a Manga series, then a movie, then a TV series. (Published and Produced, respectively, by Kadokawa Shoten)

Hitoshi Yasuda put together Group SNE with the intention of doing more with RoLW but didn't want to get tied up with TSR who had created D&D. So he created a slightly different "Lodoss War" game. It was built on Japanese Sensibilities using the AD&D system as a baseline, so some rules were changed, some stuff drastically altered.

But then he went back and did a little reworking to file those D&D serial numbers off a bit harder. More "Dragon Quest" and "Final Fantasy" style stuff was added to make it more Japanese and less American... and it became Sword World which was a MASSIVE hit with high schoolers. Runaway success! It's practically the basis of the "Japanese Fantasy World" that you see in almost every anime and manga made into a TTRPG.

And the whole thing is based on d6s. Making it "Easier" than a d20 centric multi-polyhedral game. But then Shinwa went out of business... And they were the ones providing D&D to Japan, which made it practically impossible to find materials right around the same time TSR went nuts on flinging out so many books it isn't funny and murdered their own business. It lead to the "Winter of TTRPGs" in Japan that would last into the aughts.

Then Sword World 2.0 hit in 2008 and reignited the country's enjoyment of TTRPGs. Replay books and -videos- basically Critical Role'd Japan years before Mercer got the idea.

Sword World is bigger in Japan than D&D for a simple reason: It is D&D. But it's Japanese D&D. And while WotC can try to make D&D more Japanese, they're fighting against 30+ years of a dominant product in the market.

D&D had sold less than 300,000 copies as of Q1 2021. Unless they managed to sell a few million copies in the last two years... Sword World is the dominant force.
Thank you for confirming there is a market for it.

I mean the fact that there is a market for this type of game is all you need and layered on top D&D has a long history in the market. As you noted, things go up and down, so maybe WotC should to head back up?
 
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A Gaming cafe. Singular. One. With a largely unknown clientele that may favor expatriates and foreigners.
It's one data point, sure, but there are many others. Beyond other TRPG cafes, you have online session portal sites, conventions, and publicly available TRPG circles (i.e., clubs). D&D is always in the mix for all of these. It may not be number one, but it'll be number two, three, or four. I agree with the large part of your post, but my point is that D&D has always been one of the leaders in the Japanese TPRG market. It used to be Sword World, D&D, and then everyone else, and now it's Cthulhu, Sword World, D&D, and everyone else, which to me does not indicate "low interest."

I will need a citation for this though,
In 2021, Kadokawa announced that they'd sold more Call of Cthulu (300,000 copies since 2004, 60,000 of 7th edition since it was released in 2020) than D&D had sold in Japan, total. So D&D has sold less than 300,000 books in Japan since 2004 if Kadokawa's bragging is to be believed.
I believe Kadokawa's numbers for CoC, but I don't know how they would know what D&D sold in total. Hobby Japan is not part of their keiretsu. And I did not see that claim made in the article. That said, it should be noted that there was essentially a 3 year gap between 2014, when 4e was discontinued, and 2017 when Hobby Japan was finally given the license to do translations.
 

Sword World (which Iosue did a fascinating read-through of Review - Let's Read Sword World 2.5! ) is a nice example of D&D adapated to Japanese tastes, BTW. It's made for short play-throughs, has heavy gaming and (duh) anime influences and mixes sci-fi and fantasy freely, recommends character selection with a focus on party balance, and a bunch of other things I probably missed. I would really love to see an official translation. I think the mechanics of focusing on one-shots might actually be good for older gamers with limited time due to work and family commitments, and an RPG that acknowledges the video games and anime gamers often consume could be appealing to many people.
 

Let's remember the D&D brand can make money in Asian markets with other type of products: novels, webcomics, anime...

I suspect some PC species has been created or updated as winks for the otaku community: tabaxi, plasmoids, harengon..

* WotC would need a lot of playtesting to create a classe style pokemon-trainer/digimon-tamer. I suggest some game mechanic mixing the summoner class from Pathfinder and the totemist shaman from Magic of Incarnum, but with rules simples and fast.

* Vanaras needs a right design to be not only a furry version of Jarjar binks.

* Other way to promote the brand is the webnovels, although these were amateur. Some anime IPs started as webcomics or webnovels, later they became manga and after animated productions. Maybe WotC could create something like "Dark Pack" by Onyx Path.
 

I think there are to separate issues here: a D&D campaign marketed towards a Japanese audience and a Japanese modeled rpg setting for the rest of the world.

I think the first one is easily done: D&D has a long history in Japan as my old VHS Record of the Lodoss war tapes can tell you. D&D and its tropes fit right in with Japanese popular culture and are really baked into a lot of games and media there.

As for the second one, I can't see it happening. I think the effort that would have to go into making a game for the western market that would not upset westerners would be exceptional. I have a good friend who lives in Japan and is a gamer through and through. He tells me that the western lens on Japan is generally thought of as just another view, often with a lot of laughter. Could WotC do it? I am honestly not sure they could in a way that wouldn't cause at least some conflict.
 

Kara-Tur? I believe it have too many cultural appropriation stuff that will deem problematic. Beside they got Yeonido (Korea), Yongjing (China) and Umizu (Japan) which are Nebula Award Nominated (the whole Journeys through the Radiant Citadel got nominated). Why trying to fix up Kara-Tur when they have three new and promising setting.

Because Kara Tur is still extremely popular and has lots of fans who want that, including older Asian fans who I have seen that have an emotional attachment to it, because this was the first time their cultural hertiage got included in D&D.

Is it flawless, no, but there has been two massive cosmological disasters and over a 100 years, so there is plenty of room to expand and polish the setting. Hire so experts on Asian history and culture and mythology to help.

You could even stick the Asian inspired Radiant Citadel locations in parts of Kara Tur that haven't been explored yet.
 

Let's remember the D&D brand can make money in Asian markets with other type of products: novels, webcomics, anime...

I suspect some PC species has been created or updated as winks for the otaku community: tabaxi, plasmoids, harengon..

* Vanaras needs a right design to be not only a furry version of Jarjar binks.

* Other way to promote the brand is the webnovels, although these were amateur. Some anime IPs started as webcomics or webnovels, later they became manga and after animated productions. Maybe WotC could create something like "Dark Pack" by Onyx Path.

Anime Musical Videos in youtube could be a good promotion. I love Alan Walker.




A D&D version of donghua epic battles would be awesome, but with a different style, because it would be a heterogeneous team with different team roles (tank, support,range attack..) against an enemy army or a boss monster.

* Aasimars could find their place in the D&D xianghu, and the update version of the spellcales. What about the lungs or imperial dragons, and their dragonborn offspring?
 


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