D&D 5E Assassinate

[Monk55]

This is how the wizard knows to cast shield. When the arrow does indeed strike it's target is when you roll damage.

You keep referring to a reaction situation that usually happens with the wizard knowing who is attacking and with what. In this situation, the wizard does not know who is attacking or with what, they don't even know there is an attack coming! At the very least, the wizard should have to succeed on an active perception roll prior to any reaction if the attacker is stealthy/hidden.

There is definitely a conflict in the rules here. On the one hand, there are those who think the rule saying those surprised cannot move or act on their turn and cannot react until after their turn means surprise ends at the end of the turn they could not move or act in. On the other hand, there are those who think the rule saying that a stealth/passive perception check determines whether anyone is surprised means the only things that will end surprise are a successful active perception roll or the target's realization that they have been shot at (because the arrow is either in their back or in the tree next to them). I don't see any way to reconcile these two views. The first view will never accept that anyone can still be surprised once they are allowed to react, and the second view will never accept that initiative, not stealth/perception, determines when surprise ends.

 

[Monk55]

Duplicate, sorry! Not sure why this happened.

 

[Monk55]

Duplicate, sorry!

 

[MG.0]

There is definitely a conflict in the rules here. On the one hand, there are those who think the rule saying those surprised cannot move or act on their turn and cannot react until after their turn means surprise ends at the end of the turn they could not move or act in. On the other hand, there are those who think the rule saying that a stealth/passive perception check determines whether anyone is surprised means the only things that will end surprise are a successful active perception roll or the target's realization that they have been shot at (because the arrow is either in their back or in the tree next to them). I don't see any way to reconcile these two views. The first view will never accept that anyone can still be surprised once they are allowed to react, and the second view will never accept that initiative, not stealth/perception, determines when surprise ends.

That's it in a nutshell. The end result isn't very different either way, namely whether or not an assassin hitting after the target has taken his turn gets an auto critical or not.

Just curious, how would you describe narratively what happens when a target wizard beats an assassin on initiative and casts shield as a reaction? He is free to do so since his turn has passed.

 

[Arial Black]

Just curious, how would you describe narratively what happens when a target wizard beats an assassin on initiative and casts shield as a reaction? He is free to do so since his turn has passed.

Just because you are able to take reactions, this doesn't make you aware of things you weren't aware of before.

I would not allow any reaction to anything the reactor didn't know about.

 

[MG.0]

Just because you are able to take reactions, this doesn't make you aware of things you weren't aware of before.

I would not allow any reaction to anything the reactor didn't know about.

That seems pretty extreme since the rules clearly say the character is entitled to a reaction. Shield even says it even protects against the triggering attack.

I would not do that.

 

[Lidgar]

Some food for thought on reactions (from Basic Rules):

Uncanny Dodge: Starting at 5th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack’s damage against you.

Reactions: A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else’s.

Spell Reactions: Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event.

Shield: Casting Time: 1 reaction, which you take when you are hit by an attack or targeted by the magic missile spell

More food for thought:

Suppose a party consisting of a Wizard and Assassin surprises an evil cleric. The Wizard has the highest initiative, followed by the evil cleric and then lastly the rather slow and clumsy Assassin. The Wizard casts shocking grasp on the evil cleric. In addition to the damage, an effect of this spell is that the affected creature cannot take reactions until the beginning of the creature's next turn.

On the evil cleric's turn, he is surprised, and therefore cannot take an action or move. Furthermore, he is under the effect of the shocking grasp spell, so cannot take reactions.

The Assassin then gets his turn. Is the evil cleric surprised since he was not able to take reactions?

Apologies if this scenario was discussed earlier in the thread.

On a side note, I have found this thread to be quite educational and entertaining.

 

[Arial Black]

Suppose a party consisting of a Wizard and Assassin surprises an evil cleric. The Wizard has the highest initiative, followed by the bandit and then lastly the rather slow and clumsy Assassin. The Wizard casts shocking grasp on the evil cleric. In addition to the damage, an effect of this spell is that the affected creature cannot take reactions until the beginning of the creature's next turn.

On the evil cleric's turn, he is surprised, and therefore cannot take an action or move. Furthermore, he is under the effect of the shocking grasp spell, so cannot take reactions.

The Assassin then gets his turn. Is the evil cleric still surprised since he was not able to take reactions?

Apologies if this scenario was discussed earlier in the thread.

On a side note, I have found this thread to be quite educational and entertaining.

This is not a problem for me. As soon as the cleric is affected by the shocking grasp he notices the threat and is no longer surprised.

Being unable to take reactions does not cause surprise, therefore being able to take reactions doesn't end surprise.

I'd be interested in how those who think the opposite solve this one.

 

[MG.0]

This is not a problem for me. As soon as the cleric is affected by the shocking grasp he notices the threat and is no longer surprised. Being unable to take reactions does not cause surprise, therefore being able to take reactions doesn't end surprise. I'd be interested in how those who think the opposite solve this one.

By the time the assassin gets around to attacking, the cleric is no longer surprised. A spell preventing the cleric from taking a reaction is irrelevant.

 

[Wojorides]

Make it simple Surprise ends at the end of the first combat round for those that were surprised. Wow solves all the problems doesnt it. If you dont know an attack is coming, you DONT know it is coming. No action, no reaction. It happens. 47 pages of BS. Get a life people