Assassins: Just Plain Evil or Misunderstood?

[Laurel]

I have agree with those saying the assassin is misunderstood.
It is all why they kill that makes them good or evil. An assassin can choose to take any money offered and kill everything ordered, or they can occationally say no. The assassin could also use some of those guild contacts to get info. and then accept or decline the job.

 

[ARandomGod]

One of my players recently (and skillfully) twisted something I've been saying for quite some time. My belief that not all assassins are pure evil and sometimes it is necessary to 'off' someone. Let's face it, there are NPCs out there just dying to step up to the point of your blade. You know, asking for it and the 'he just fell back on it' bit only works so many times.

Anywho, I knew I was in trouble when the player's sweet innocent (okay, she's not that innocent) bard starting having a lot of angst in her posts. When I asked 'what's up with that?' the player told me he was building her up for the assassin PrC and the only problem was finding someone to kill to get into the elite clubhouse.

That's when my foot jammed itself into my mouth. The only thing saving me from digging up a good (besides the standard 'no' answer) excuse why that's not a good idea is my homebrew has a PrC class that would work. Sure there's a Bounty Hunter PrC out there but it really doesn't fit the way this character is going.

So what is everyone's thought? We've all had PCs at one time sent to kill someone and they weren't assassins or evil in alignment. I know I have.

Oh, I have no problem with them not being evil. In fact, there are may ways in which I would define typical paladin characteristics as evil.

The only reason it's evil is that is says it is. If you want to homebrew a non-evil assassin, the easiest homebrew is one that is EXACTLY the same, except non-evil. There's no reason not to have it.

 

[Umbran]

Here's the thing - you may be right that not all people who kill for hire are pure evil. But not all people who kill for hire are members of the Assassin Prestige Class.

The DMG's assassin, as presented, is the type of person who does not care who the target is. They'll kill just about anyone, guilty or innocent. They are not specifically devoted to justice, or ridding the world of evil doers. These assassins don't restrict themselves to targets that "just needs killin' ". And occasionally killing a person who is doing harm doesn't make you non-evil, if you also kill a lot of folks who don't deserve it. Alignment is the long-term average of deeds and motivations.

Mention this to your player - she's planning to join a group of people who have a general policy of not caring about the moral character of the target. Ask her to consider what happens if she starts rejecting jobs based upon moral character. What is the Guild likely to think of that? What does that do to the Guild's reputation?

Note that the requirements state that the character must kill someone for no other reason than to join the assassins. Which means that she cannot choose a target using any other criteria. No, "well, this will get me into the Guild, and he's a bad guy." The "and" indicates a reason other than to join.

The point of the requirement is to prove that the character will kill anyone, you see. Presumably, the Guild would assign or approve a target. You don't get to kill whoever you want, based upon opportunity, and claim it was for the Guild after the fact, as there's no proof that it was only for the Guild.

Of course, if she wants to go through with it, let her. The act of doing so probably makes a big step towards being evil. If she's not exactly innocent to begin with... well, the party cleric may soon have problems with her.

 

[takyris]

Ditto the others. The PrC is clearly evil, but killing someone via stealth is not in and of itself.

She could just as easily start taking levels in rogue to justify her character development. Or just start tweaking her bard-dom toward assassination. They don't do a ton of damage in combat, but I've found bards to be excellent assassins in all other respects. They can get in close, they've got magic built to incapacitate people, and they mess with people's minds.

If she really wants to be an assassin, she should either be willing to turn evil, or she should be willing to take a different PrC.

 

[Dogbrain]

BTW, I prefer the FFG assassin core class from "City Works"; I've never liked the automatic assumption that an assassin has spells.

There is no such "automatic" assumption. Go get out your Players Handbook, the REAL one, not the new one. There's the assassin class, all the way up to "Grandfather of Assassins". Not a single spell to be seen.

 

[Desdichado]

BTW, I prefer the FFG assassin core class from "City Works"; I've never liked the automatic assumption that an assassin has spells.

Dude, this is D&D 3e. The automatic assumption is that everyone has some spells.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

[snip]
Here's the thing - you may be right that not all people who kill for hire are pure evil. But not all people who kill for hire are members of the Assassin Prestige Class.

The DMG's assassin, as presented, is the type of person who does not care who the target is. They'll kill just about anyone, guilty or innocent. They are not specifically devoted to justice, or ridding the world of evil doers. These assassins don't restrict themselves to targets that "just needs killin' ". And occasionally killing a person who is doing harm doesn't make you non-evil, if you also kill a lot of folks who don't deserve it. Alignment is the long-term average of deeds and motivations.
[/snip]

Hafta agree here--and, I think this is a good example of how D&D terminology can get "blurred" at times, whether it's "assassin" vs. "Assassin," "barbarian," vs. "Barbarian," "monk" vs. "Monk," etc.--one's a generic word, the other's a specific term referring to a specific class/prestige class in the game. It's oh so much easier to keep this in mind when dealing with D&D--it'll drive ya nuts otherwise.

 

[Nifft]

If it were me, the guild would choose the victim... from among her companions. If she did the job, she'd become [Evil], an Assassin, and an NPC.

Perhaps there's some sort of "Infiltrator" PrC that gives 6 skill points/level (in more Rogue-ish skills than Bardic skills), partially extends Bardic spellcasting and grants some Sneak Attack, in trade for no progress in Bardic music, Bardic knowlege or Perform?

-- N

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I'm in the Evil camp. But that's because after reading all the alignment discussions in all the 3rd Ed books, I believe that the basic split of alignments is:

Good: Does good things. Kills to help people or because of their morals("this person needs to die").

Neutral: Tries not to get involved. Feels that the war between good and evil is not their fight.

Evil: Does evil things. Kills people because it helps themselves or for no good reason.

So, if you are an assassin who chooses his targets based on morals, you are actually GOOD. If you are an assassin who kills for money or just because you like it, you are evil. If you are neutral, you are likely not accepting jobs to kill anyone at all. Likely to say "Why should I kill him? He hasn't done anything to ME." A neutral person MIGHT kill someone because of a vendetta, but being an assassin sounds too much like actively changing the world around you.

In previous editions, I might have agreed that Assassins were neutral, but the definition of neutral has changed in 3rd edition from "I do as many good OR evil things as I want" to more of a "I haven't done much that would classify me as good or evil.

Majoru Oakheart

 

[Kastil]

Anyway, I'm not sure what your question is. Are you looking for a reason to deny the player a hired-gun PrC? Do you want to know if people generally allow non-evil hired-gun PrCs in their games? Or what?

Heck no. He's a really good player but it was a 180 on his character design.

I'm just feeling the boards to see how others feel about non-evil assassin types in general and this player's inquiry fueled my fire on the subject.

Trust me, I know how to say no. Made a few game rules on the subject as well on my Code of Conduct page on my webpage.