At 1st level, how powerful would you say PCs are in any edition of D&D?

[Puggins]

I certainly wouldn't characterize them as super-heroic, in any edition.

Compare a 1st level character to an ordinary orc:

From BECMI through 3rd, any given character would be taking a great risk by fighting it in a straight battle- a solid hit by the orc will take him out. Wizards who memorized the wrong spell(s) or who lost initiative would risk a high probability of death, fighters would still be able to be taken out by a somewhat fortunate (but not altogether unlikely) strike.

In 4th ed., a 1st level character has a very likely fatal encounter on his hands. The basic orc is a 3rd level soldier or brute (forgot which) that enjoys a comparable armor class, higher attack bonus and a serious hit point advantage compared to any 1st level character. So does an average town guard (3rd level soldier), by the way. 4th edition characters start behind the curve compared to other editions, I think.

 

[Razjah]

A lot of the reasons for any of the first three choices were given and I can't really contribue there. However, I choose extraordinary becasue in any system of D&D or its offshoots a 1st level PC is a Somebody. Any 1st level character will seem extraordinary in comparison to the world. The PCs have more skills and special talents than townsfolk.

Although any GM can change this to run any way he or she chooses the world to be. I'm currently running E6 Pathfinder so if the person isn't a somebody the person is most likely a level 1 commoner. Even games outside of E6 I think tend to follow that, which in my opinion makes every PC extraordinary.

 

[the Jester]

Your question is off base to begin with, as 1st level pcs range from ordinary (1e and earlier) to superheroic (4e). It depends on the edition- they really are different games.

 

[Puggins]

Your question is off base to begin with, as 1st level pcs range from ordinary (1e and earlier) to superheroic (4e). It depends on the edition- they really are different games.

I wouldn't exactly call them ordinary in 1e or BECMI- they were definitely better than commoners. a 1st level fighter with average equipment and average hit points was still better than the average orc at fighting, putting him well above common humanity. The orc can still win, though.

4e 1st level characters are nowhere near super-heroic in terms of taking down opponents. Like I said above, any 1st level character would have a very, very difficult time against a typical orc or a town guard. A kobold warrior would be a non-trivial fight. If anything, 4e characters start off comparatively weaker than other editions.

 

[Celebrim]

I've played 1e and 3e, both with minor and extensive house rules.

The idea that I've always tried to capture with a 1st level character is a character who has ordinary ability but extraordinary potential.

So, for example, if the character is a 1st level fighter he is probably nearly the best swordsman in his village. But while he is perhaps not quite as skilled a fighter as the best warrior in the village, he's a better warrior than that person was at the same age. He lacks experience and training, but the raw talent he possesses is considered extraordinary to any with the knowledge to evaluate it. Sure, the 1st level wizard isn't nearly as capable of a wizard as the best wizard in his home town (likely his mentor), but the best wizard in town is also aged 60 and has a STR, DEX and CON each at 6 or less. Meanwhile, the young hale and agile wizard is mastering powerful 1st level spells years before anyone expected him too.

The 1st level character is the sort of character to whom the master says (or thinks), "One day you will far surpass me."

Under my current rules and demographics, the average character in the world is probably something like a 3rd level commoner or expert. Typically they will be built with 15 point buy, and have feats and skills appropriate for holding a mundane profession. It's not unusual in my campaign for me to have a non-combat 5th level character with a CR of 1/2 or some such (and therefore minimal time worrying about stats).

The 1st level PC on the other hand is built with 32 point buy, and begins as an 'advantaged character' (free advantage, similar to a feat), and begins with 'Destiny Points' (essentially hard to earn rerolls). Therefore, even though the 1st level PC is of lower level than most characters in the environment, in terms of ability he will typically match or exceed everyone around in everything but abilities related to practicing mundane professions. Most 'higher level' characters will tend to be aged and far past their prime, thus thrusting the younger generation into the spotlight.

 

[fanboy2000]

Your question is off base to begin with, as 1st level pcs range from ordinary (1e and earlier) to superheroic (4e). It depends on the edition- they really are different games.

While I understand your point. There are people who really do generalize across editions. So, it makes sense to ask what those generalizations are, even if not everyone agrees that generalizing across editions is appropriate or even possible. It's like an internet poll about how good a movie is, just because not everyone saw the movie doesn't mean it isn't a valid question.

That's one of the underlying tensions on this board isn't it? I've seen quite a few arguments over how things were so much different in edition X vers edition Y, versus how things are really similar between edition X and Y. In fact, there was a whole thread about level advancement in prior editions versus more recent ones a while back. It was pretty interesting.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

I wouldn't exactly call them ordinary in 1e or BECMI- they were definitely better than commoners. a 1st level fighter with average equipment and average hit points was still better than the average orc at fighting, putting him well above common humanity. The orc can still win, though.

4e 1st level characters are nowhere near super-heroic in terms of taking down opponents. Like I said above, any 1st level character would have a very, very difficult time against a typical orc or a town guard. A kobold warrior would be a non-trivial fight. If anything, 4e characters start off comparatively weaker than other editions.

Well, a 1st-level PC in Classic is about equal to the NPCs that you meet if you look at the monster section entries for humans (e.g. "Nomad"), and just barely above if you use the "Normal Man" line. PCs don't have superior statistics, maximum HP at first level, or any of the things that 3E PCs get.

As to 4E, I haven't played it, but my understanding of the minion concept is that sometimes 1st-level PCs are FAR above ordinary orc or kobold warriors. Those enemies drop like flies from one hit, while PCs can withstand several basic attacks and keep going. But that's a difference in the design philosophy of 4E -- you can't compare a PC to an ordinary "in-the-world" orc or kobold, since they don't have any existence off-screen. Orcs exist as obstacles for the PCs and nothing more. Sometimes they are meant to be a big challenge, so they are given more HP, I guess, but other times they are not. I think the question is largely meaningless in 4E as I understand it. Still, if the PCs were to gather the local farmers into a militia to defend against the orc attack, and the DM was forced to stat out "normal people," what would the farmers look like?

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I could not choose an appropriate poll selection so:

For me there is a big divide between editions.

AD&D, 2e and 3e: 1st level characters were just starting out, ordinary people with extraordinary potential. In other words novices.

4e: Usually veterans from the get go, even if their abilities didn't quite back this up. A 1st level character is a known "someone" in the world. Definitely not a novice.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Kingreaper]

In 4th ed., a 1st level character has a very likely fatal encounter on his hands. The basic orc is a 3rd level soldier or brute (forgot which) that enjoys a comparable armor class, higher attack bonus and a serious hit point advantage compared to any 1st level character. So does an average town guard (3rd level soldier), by the way. 4th edition characters start behind the curve compared to other editions, I think.

A 5-person 1st level party, against 5 level 3 monsters, will win more often than not in my experience.

Now, if they've not got their dailies (ie. they've already been in one or two fights that day) the monsters have a better chance. But a level 1 PC is a lot closer to a level 3/4 standard, than to a level 1 standard.

 

[mhensley]

Your question is off base to begin with, as 1st level pcs range from ordinary (1e and earlier) to superheroic (4e). It depends on the edition- they really are different games.

Yep, and here's proof-

This table shows the percent chance of dying that a 1st level fighter faces in a fight with a goblin-

full info here-
1d8: The Evolution of the Fighter in D&D - Take 2