log in or register to remove this ad

 

At-will bardic-style inspiration - balanced?

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
So I'm working on a homebrew class, and I'm wondering if a major class feature I'm thinking of is balanced, or if there's something abusable that I'm not seeing. (I'm not as worried if it's undertuned, as other class or subclass features will also strengthen it.) I'm also not too worried about flavor right now, I more looking into making sure the mechanical hooks are interesting and not too strong.

"Inspiration": As an action, you may grant "Inspiration" to any non-hostile creature, other than yourself, within 60 feet that can hear you and understand your speech. That creature gains an "Inspiration" die, a d6. They may add this die to any attack roll, ability check, or saving throw they make. The creature can wait until after it rolls the d20 before deciding to use the "Inspiration" die, but must decide before the GM says whether the roll succeeds or fails. At the end of the creature's next turn, or when the "Inspiration" die is rolled, it is lost. No creature may have more than one "Inspiration" die at any given time.

Basically, it's Bardic Inspiration. But it costs an entire action, and it can't be used preemptively, since it only last till end of next turn, which I think balances out the fact that it's at-will. It's intended as the default at-will ability of an Intelligence-based, non-spellcaster support class. Not too crazy, right?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

log in or register to remove this ad

Krachek

Adventurer
A 'Guidance' with a d6, + attack rolls and save.
There is already some people that found out Guidance a bit too much....
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
A 'Guidance' with a d6, + attack rolls and save.
There is already some people that found out Guidance a bit too much....
I've never been one of them, personally. And I think any character focused on support is probably going to try and grab Guidance, anyway. So having a slightly stronger version isn't a big deal.

It does run into stacking issues with Guidance, though, which isn't something to dismiss. Maybe I should split out the ability check portion of the ability, or just add in text specifying it doesn't stack with Guidance.
 


Xeviat

Adventurer
Yeah, ranged help. As long as it's only slightly better than help, it should be fine. As an example, shield mastery let's you push as a bonus action. Help as a bonus action would probably be a fair feat ability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
So I'm working on a homebrew class, and I'm wondering if a major class feature I'm thinking of is balanced, or if there's something abusable that I'm not seeing. (I'm not as worried if it's undertuned, as other class or subclass features will also strengthen it.) I'm also not too worried about flavor right now, I more looking into making sure the mechanical hooks are interesting and not too strong.

"Inspiration": As an action, you may grant "Inspiration" to any non-hostile creature, other than yourself, within 60 feet that can hear you and understand your speech. That creature gains an "Inspiration" die, a d6. They may add this die to any attack roll, ability check, or saving throw they make. The creature can wait until after it rolls the d20 before deciding to use the "Inspiration" die, but must decide before the GM says whether the roll succeeds or fails. At the end of the creature's next turn, or when the "Inspiration" die is rolled, it is lost. No creature may have more than one "Inspiration" die at any given time.

Basically, it's Bardic Inspiration. But it costs an entire action, and it can't be used preemptively, since it only last till end of next turn, which I think balances out the fact that it's at-will. It's intended as the default at-will ability of an Intelligence-based, non-spellcaster support class. Not too crazy, right?
I'm not a big fan.

In combat, it's almost never worth your action - spending a turn to buff is usually a losing proposition if your buff only lasts 1 turn.

Out of combat, it's a free +1d6 to any check. Not apocalyptic, but it stacks with guidance, bumping up the bonus-stacking tower of cards you can have. +1d4+1d6 is likely to overwhelm the proficiency bonus at lower levels, and threatens to overwhelm the die roll at higher levels (creating more "impossible to fail" situations).

Any reason you can't just give the class the guidance cantrip?
 

Satyrn

First Post
Following on what the banana said, I'd drop the ability check part. Have this work only on attacks and saves, and tack on using it to up AC for 1 attack as an option.

And then tack it on to the attack action, weakening your attack roll or damage in some way to compensate.
 

mellored

Explorer
A 'Guidance' with a d6, + attack rolls and save.
There is already some people that found out Guidance a bit too much....
Closer to at-will bless.
Which you can more or less do at level 5+, if you spend all of your spell slots on it.


So... maybe 1 inspiration at a time, and make it a d4.
 


TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
I'm not a big fan.

In combat, it's almost never worth your action - spending a turn to buff is usually a losing proposition if your buff only lasts 1 turn.
Well, this is in the context of a class that's intended to be a noncombatant. Not pacifist, rather, I want to give them an at-will option that is competitive with weapon or cantrip attacks, but instead gives other characters an offensive buff. Ideally it wouldn't be a Commander's Strike clone, where the character sacrifices an action to give someone else an attack. I'm also thinking of an option where the character can give someone else a free use of the Ready action, but the character is the one that determines the trigger. Gives a bit of a "tactician" vibe, but prevents the issue of "you're telling my character what to do".
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Well, this is in the context of a class that's intended to be a noncombatant. Not pacifist, rather, I want to give them an at-will option that is competitive with weapon or cantrip attacks, but instead gives other characters an offensive buff. Ideally it wouldn't be a Commander's Strike clone, where the character sacrifices an action to give someone else an attack. I'm also thinking of an option where the character can give someone else a free use of the Ready action, but the character is the one that determines the trigger. Gives a bit of a "tactician" vibe, but prevents the issue of "you're telling my character what to do".
I might consider a "bonus action buff" or "reaction buffs" - things that don't use your action.
  • When a character moves to within 5 feet of an enemy that you are within 5 feet of, use your reaction to grant +CHA or +INT damage on their next attack
  • When a character hits an enemy that you hit on your last turn, they can make a saving throw of their choice.
  • Look the Mastermind's bonus-action Help (perhaps at range if that's all they get)
  • Give the next attack +1 to hit

Let them do their normal turn, and give them something to do in addition to smackin' around goblins or something. Unless it's important that they can give up their turn to buff? (In which case, giving up their action to grant +1d8 damage to an ally's attack might be fine numbers-wise, though it might still struggle in the Feel of it).
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
Let them do their normal turn, and give them something to do in addition to smackin' around goblins or something. Unless it's important that they can give up their turn to buff? (In which case, giving up their action to grant +1d8 damage to an ally's attack might be fine numbers-wise, though it might still struggle in the Feel of it).
Ideally, I want an ability that's superior to a straight cantrip cast damage (so better than a fire bolt's 5.5 average damage * to-hit chance), but probably not quite as good as an optimized build focused on leveraging greenflame blade or something. If it's an Int-based class, I have to assume people taking high elf and having at least one cantrip option open to them, or dipping wizard at some point.

And yes, for the feel of the class I want the baseline assumption to be that a direct attack roll is only something done in out of the ordinary circumstances. The bread and butter option should be this buff. (Much like a 4e lazylord's main option was Commander's Strike, but I'm trying to make something more mechanically interesting than that.)
 

mellored

Explorer
Well, this is in the context of a class that's intended to be a noncombatant. Not pacifist, rather, I want to give them an at-will option that is competitive with weapon or cantrip attacks, but instead gives other characters an offensive buff. Ideally it wouldn't be a Commander's Strike clone, where the character sacrifices an action to give someone else an attack. I'm also thinking of an option where the character can give someone else a free use of the Ready action, but the character is the one that determines the trigger. Gives a bit of a "tactician" vibe, but prevents the issue of "you're telling my character what to do".
Then I would focus on +/- damage.

The next time the target is hit, it takes 1d6 extra damage. Scaling to the next 2 times, 3 times, and 4 times. Which is cantrip even damage.

As a reaction you can reduce damage to an ally. Reducing damage by 1d6+ half your class level.

You need to be careful adding to d20 rolls, since it scales automatically. Bless is still valuable at level 12, but burning hands needs to be upgraded into fireball. Not impossible to add some (paladin ' auras) but they need to be rare.
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
Then I would focus on +/- damage.

The next time the target is hit, it takes 1d6 extra damage. Scaling to the next 2 times, 3 times, and 4 times. Which is cantrip even damage.

You need to be careful adding to d20 rolls, since it scales automatically. Bless is still valuable at level 12, but burning hands needs to be upgraded into fireball. Not impossible to add some (paladin ' auras) but they need to be rare.
Hmm. Since the class is a non-spellcaster, I wonder if using a rogue-style progression and having the damage increase as 1d6/2 levels would be more appropriate. Like an "Identify Weak Spot" ability, where you can give an ally sneak attack level damage on their next attack versus a chosen enemy. If they don't hit, it doesn't trigger and the buff is lost. That would be the closest analog to rogue damage, since it can't be used more than once per round, and it's still dependent on a hit. And swashbuckler rogue already shows that nearly 100% chance to sneak attack isn't really overpowered. Maybe make it 1d4/2 to be safe.
 

mellored

Explorer
Hmm. Since the class is a non-spellcaster, I wonder if using a rogue-style progression and having the damage increase as 1d6/2 levels would be more appropriate. Like an "Identify Weak Spot" ability, where you can give an ally sneak attack level damage on their next attack versus a chosen enemy. If they don't hit, it doesn't trigger and the buff is lost. That would be the closest analog to rogue damage, since it can't be used more than once per round, and it's still dependent on a hit. And swashbuckler rogue already shows that nearly 100% chance to sneak attack isn't really overpowered. Maybe make it 1d4/2 to be safe.
It depends on what other abilities you give them. But rogue is probably a good place to start.
Also a rouge can miss. So take accuracy into account.
 




jgsugden

Hero
That is really no different than hiring a rogue NPC to fight alongside you..
I am going to disagree on that statement. Hiring a low level rogue to make some attacks for you means that the rogue is going to be in combat and will us the rogue's attack bonus and damage. They're going to be in a targetable position, have a lower chance to hit, and do relatively little damage compared to the higher level PC that hired the rogue.

This inspirer can be out of sight of the enemy. Further, it is enhancing the chance to hit for a PC that will likely do a lot more damage on a hit than the NPCs and may deal conditions or effects on a hit. The bonus being granted is not advantage, so it stacks with advantage.

If you give a PC fighter with great weapon master a choice between a follower with this ability or a low level rogue, the fighter would be very well se4rved choosing the inspiring PC.
 

Satyrn

First Post
Oh. We're not discussing the same thing. You're referring to the original idea, I was referring to the modifications later in the conversation.
 

Mythological Figures & Maleficent Monsters

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top