At-Will Magic and Arrows

[Elf Witch]

Yes archers run out of arrows in every game I played in. Until you have a bag of holding or something else there is a finite amount you can carry because we also do weight carried.

It usually happened when you were in a position not to be able to buy more. Like spending weeks in a dungeon.

We have also ran low on food and water.

 

[Connorsrpg]

Sometimes.

But that is not my beef with magic. I have no prob with cantrips always being available.

It is the ALWAYS hitting, no matter the CIRCUMSTANCES combined with unlimited supply that does my head in.

 

[Campbell]

Yes archers run out of arrows in every game I played in. Until you have a bag of holding or something else there is a finite amount you can carry because we also do weight carried.

It usually happened when you were in a position not to be able to buy more. Like spending weeks in a dungeon.

We have also ran low on food and water.

Arrows weigh 3 lbs. for a quiver of 20. Even at low levels an additional 12 or 15 lbs. is unlikely to have an effect on encumbrance especially for a dedicated archer. Of course part of the disconnect here might be that I have never played or run a game where the PCs spend weeks in a dungeon away from civilization.

 

[mlund]

Trying to hold that sort of thing over players is almost pointless. If it becomes an issue they just play around it. Need a pack mule for ammunition? Somebody roll a dwarf. Need food and water? Somebody make a cleric, ranger, or druid (or just train Survival). Can't buy any more ammo? Someone take a craft, non-weapon proficiency, or background to fletch them. It isn't a challenge to be met or a dramatic point outside of a very isolated scenario. In most cases it is just pedantic book-keeping.

- Marty Lund

 

[enrious]

My PCs run out of ammunition about as frequently as they run out of food or water.

That means it only comes up if limited resources is germane to the plot - like traveling in a wasteland of trapped on the high seas. Generally mundane survival issues don't hold my PC's interest. If I wanted to force the issue regularly they'd just carry a bunch of extra ammo and have one PC be a tracker/hunter by trade and another be a fletcher.

- Marty Lund

This.

The only exceptions that I recall were a World's Largest Dungeon campaign and a Midnight campaign.

Even in Ravenloft, not so much.

 

[Elf Witch]

Arrows weigh 3 lbs. for a quiver of 20. Even at low levels an additional 12 or 15 lbs. is unlikely to have an effect on encumbrance especially for a dedicated archer. Of course part of the disconnect here might be that I have never played or run a game where the PCs spend weeks in a dungeon away from civilization.

It is not just the weight it how many can you actually carry at one time? Does your backpack have anything inside it besides quivers.

We often played where we away from civilization for months at a time and in those games things like ammo, food, water and other things are counted.

 

[Elf Witch]

Trying to hold that sort of thing over players is almost pointless. If it becomes an issue they just play around it. Need a pack mule for ammunition? Somebody roll a dwarf. Need food and water? Somebody make a cleric, ranger, or druid (or just train Survival). Can't buy any more ammo? Someone take a craft, non-weapon proficiency, or background to fletch them. It isn't a challenge to be met or a dramatic point outside of a very isolated scenario. In most cases it is just pedantic book-keeping.

- Marty Lund

Maybe in your games but not in mine. No one I play with would make a dwarf just to have more carrying power or a cleric just to make food and water.

Also fletching does not work if you don't have supplies to fletch with.

I don't really see any difference in counting arrows to keeping track of how many spells you have used or how many charges have been used on wand.

Most of the players who use ammo like that keep an index card with boxes for ammos and mark off each box when they use one. It is not that hard nor does it take much time.

It can make a difference when you are out of in the wilds. Part of that is using the environment as a challenge to the players.

 

[Pickles JG]

I don't really see any difference in counting arrows to keeping track of how many spells you have used or how many charges have been used on wand.
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It can make a difference when you are out of in the wilds. Part of that is using the environment as a challenge to the players.[/QUOTE

Spells are few in number. I think the deal with charges is that they are more expensive but its a fair point & equally uninspiring.

It leads to Bookeeping the Roleplaying game. If you do it well you will not even notice whether or not the rules are in play, there is just a tracking overhead. When anyone says Old School this is what I think of, though I suspect there may be more to it than that.

 

[TanithT]

So much of old D&D is just book keeping. How many iron rations do you have, how many candles? Do we have enough toilet paper? Did we bring 5 iron spikes each? These are things that only really add to the game when the absence is felt, yet require so much micromanagement to keep track of.

This is not only hilarious, but actually relevant to how I run my own campaigns.

No, I do not make my PC's write on their character sheets how much toilet paper they are bringing into the dungeon. We also refrain from discussing or (ugh!) roleplaying the details of how they use it. I think we're generally pretty safe just assuming that they did bring some TP or the fantasy-era equivalent, they are using it just fine without any further explicit comment being necessary, the end.

It generally works the same way for most basic disposable supplies that aren't special in any way, and that can be reasonably assumed to be readily available. At least, it does until it becomes *dun dun dun* A Plot Point.

But what do you do when some smart PC states that they are using the party's entire supply of toilet paper - which the smart guy calculates to be 1.8 cubic feet based on the average toilet paper needs of a party this size that expects to be in the field this long - to do something other than wipe his hairy hobbit bum-bum? Can he set it on fire and instantly create a volume of smoke that defeats an invisibility spell?

Yeah, I'm gonna make a call on toilet paper if something like that comes up. Because it's relevant at that point, so it actually matters how much they had with them, or if they had any at all. Hey, I dunno - maybe they had none because they all used sand or leaves or a cantrip or something. Or the mage's used-up scrolls. Elf mages are totally into recycling and being green and stuff. The point is that when it becomes plot-relevant, you have to make a call, and it has to make logical sense. Even if you do let the hobbit rogue do this once, and you ignore the unhygenic consequences of his action, do you want to let him do it again? Probably not. Sorry, but now you have no more toilet paper in the dungeon. Sucks to be you.

I pretty much handle ammo the same way, especially when it could logically be a retrievable or renewable resource in the environment they're in. But, if the party is pinned down for hours by enemy fire, it's time to start keeping track, because it no longer makes sense to do otherwise. It's a relevant plot point, and therefore it's worth spending bookkeeping time and energy on.

Most common disposables really aren't, though. The game goes smoother if you just let the PC's have their TP. And stuff.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I'd like to see mechanics in D&D that abstract ammunition, rations, and even money. So the PCs can run out, but they don't have to keep track.

I don't really see any difference in counting arrows to keeping track of how many spells you have used or how many charges have been used on wand.

One's interesting and the other's boring.

That said, keeping track of rations could be interesting, if the game had detailed wilderness exploration, dehydration and starvation rules, the problem couldn't be solved easily by magic, and the PCs were on a desert or arctic expedition, or at sea for a long period.