Attack of Opportunity--but not really

[Vrecknidj]

I'm curious how to judge a circumstance such as the following.

For simplicity's sake, I'm just going to pick a fairly typical example of characters, without addressing special feats or prestige-class features.

Let's say Robin is an archer and is threatened by Brutus, a swordsman. By the rules as I understand them, if Robin fires his bow, Brutus is granted an attack of opportunity (again, we'er not looking into special circumstances like whether Brutus has already taken an AoO this round, or whether he has Combat Reflexes, etc., etc.).

What if Brutus thinks Robin is going to fire his bow, and so reacts to take the attack of opportunity, but Robin doesn't really fire his bow?

My first DM reaction is to say "The rules specify the conditions for the AoO, and the conditions are that the archer fire his bow." Of course, oddly, the AoO goes first and so if the AoO kills the archer, then, those conditions aren't met. So, the spirit of the rule seems to be that the conditions for the AoO are other than actually firing the bow.

Now this leads me to a question about whether Robin could use Bluff to try to provoke Brutus into taking (trying to take?) an AoO. If Robin succeeds, then, since he knows what's going on, shouldn't the AoO be wasted? I mean, the idea is that the AoO exists because the action taken by Robin leaves him open to attack--but this isn't actually happening.

So, some questions.

1) Could this be a legitimate use of the Bluff skill? It would be an opposed Sense Motive roll perhaps, maybe even modified by the person's BAB (better combatants will have seen this kind of nonsense before). If the bluffer succeeds, then the attacker uses up his AoO without actually getting to take it. If so, is this a standard action for the bluffer? Making it a move action grants the bluffer the chance to then react (and, for example, maybe shoot the opponent with aforementioned bow).

2) If Robin fails in his attempt to Bluff Brutus, then Brutus gets the AoO. In this instance, if Robin's bluffing was a standard action, all he can do is move. If Robin's bluffing was a move action, he can still attack, but only after the AoO.

3) Has this issue already been exhaustively debated on these boards, and if so, does someone recall the thread?

Dave

 

[entr0py]

it is the actual action that provokes an AoO. Thus the archer must first try to fire his bow in order to provoke it. Anything else ventures into "House Rule" territory.

 

[Vrecknidj]

it is the actual action that provokes an AoO. Thus the archer must first try to fire his bow in order to provoke it. Anything else ventures into "House Rule" territory.

Right, but, I'm also asking a rules question because I'm asking about Bluff. From the SRD: "Feinting in Combat: You can also use Bluff to mislead an opponent in melee combat (so that it can’t dodge your next attack effectively). To feint, make a Bluff check opposed by your target’s Sense Motive check, but in this case, the target may add its base attack bonus to the roll along with any other applicable modifiers. If your Bluff check result exceeds this special Sense Motive check result, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for the next melee attack you make against it. This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

Feinting in this way against a nonhumanoid is difficult because it’s harder to read a strange creature’s body language; you take a –4 penalty on your Bluff check. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2) it’s even harder; you take a –8 penalty. Against a nonintelligent creature, it’s impossible.

Feinting in combat does not provoke an attack of opportunity."

So, one of the things I'm asking is, can Bluff be used to do something similar to Feinting in Combat, but different in its effect?

Dave

 

[Shin Okada]

So, one of the things I'm asking is, can Bluff be used to do something similar to Feinting in Combat, but different in its effect?

The answer will be the same. There is no such action writtn in core rules. So if you (and your DM) really want to simulate that situation on combat rule, you guys must make a house rule.

So you would better ask at the House Rules board.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I would allow it a feint to waste an opponents attack of oppurtunity. However this thread should be in the house rules forum not in the rules forum.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Okie dokie. I don't know how to (or whether I can) move this to the House Rules. I'm guessing a moderator is needed for that? I could re-post, but, to reduce duplication, I'd like to have it moved--I suppose.

Dave

 

[DreamChaser]

In order to make Brutus think you were firing, you'd have to lift your bow, thus dropping your guard, which means he would gain an ACUTAL AoO.

The reason missile attacks cause AoO is because you cannot block a melee weapon with them so, once you stop dodging, one of the series of jabs and half-strkes that all melee combatants are assumed to be making finally connects.

The same is true of spell casting and moving through a square. It is not the IDEA of what you do that causes the AoO, it is the fact that you are less able to engage in melee while performing the action.

DC

 

[Hypersmurf]

Okie dokie. I don't know how to (or whether I can) move this to the House Rules. I'm guessing a moderator is needed for that? I could re-post, but, to reduce duplication, I'd like to have it moved--I suppose.

Done.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

House ruled something like....

Defensive Feint
Standard Action
AoO: No
With a successful opposed Bluff vs Sense Motive check, modified by BAB, you convince an opponent that you have opened yourself to an attack of opportunity. You gain a +1 competance bonus to AC for each 5 points of over the Sense Motive roll or a -1 penalty for each 5 points under. This modifier is only for your chosen opponent and lasts until the end of your turn. Your chosen opponent may take an AoO against you after you have taken this action.

?

I origanally typed a straight bonus for each point over/under the opponents roll, but figured that could get nastily out of hand. Scaling a 1 for each 5 points is a bit low.. perhaps +1 for every 2 over/under?

And no, I dont think this particular version has been debated

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

Feinting

Feinting in combat isn't a house rule. It's in the SRD.

Feinting in Combat
You can also use Bluff to mislead an opponent in melee combat (so that it can’t dodge your next attack effectively). To feint, make a Bluff check opposed by your target’s Sense Motive check, but in this case, the target may add its base attack bonus to the roll along with any other applicable modifiers.

If your Bluff check result exceeds this special Sense Motive check result, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for the next melee attack you make against it. This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

Feinting in this way against a nonhumanoid is difficult because it’s harder to read a strange creature’s body language; you take a -4 penalty on your Bluff check. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2) it’s even harder; you take a -8 penalty. Against a nonintelligent creature, it’s impossible.

Feinting in combat does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

This is an attack action. If you have the Improved Feint feat, you can do this as a move action.

I would interpret it this way: If you successfully feint your opponent in melee combat, he is effectively flat-footed. While flat-footed, an opponent cannot use attacks of opportunity unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat, thus you are able to fire your bow in melee combat without the AoO hampering you.