AU - first impressions?

[JeffB]

And the best part for me, is not the magick or the classes, but the attitude. The attitude is that lets put the control back in the hands of the GM/DM, which is kind of contrary to 3.5, IMHO. It doesn't force minatures down your throat, which is ironic, because if I remember correctly Monte uses minatures. He has sense enough to know that there are those out there who do NOT use minatures. He states that many items should be adjudicated by the GM/DM - as they should be. There doesn't need to be a rule for *EVERYTHING*. I was pretty grateful for the presence of this philosphy.

This to me, is VERY significant. Like you, I agree that 3.X has definitely gone too far in making D&D a player-centric game vs. earlier editions. Of course one could argue earlier editions were too DM friendly, but 3.X has overcompensated, IME.

Ona more general note, I've found that while just a couple of weeks ago I was gushing all over the pretty new 3.5 PHB, now I sneer at it, put it back on the shelf and pick up AU instead.

I still don't care for the races, and some of the "throwbacks" to 3.0 (vs. 3.5), but overall I love this product, and I was eager to dismiss it before I ever saw the thing.

I will be using most of the rules-set in the next campaign I work up (building up my own setting around the rules). I will include the standard D&D races instead of AU's, but that's about the only major change, though I will tweak here and there.

 

[Tsyr]

Well, I just got my copy of Au today. I wasn't going to, but all the good things said about it sold me. I respect Monte as a designer, but a lot of the things he has written in the past just isn't for me.

I have enjoyed what I have read so far. I like the races, and the classes. I havent gotten t othe magic system yet.

The only thing that realy bugs me is all the space that is used to give rules that are already in the players handbook.

Monte states that AU is written for experinced players who are familiar with "other games" that use system. If thats the case, the book is written for people who already know how combat works, how skills work, what the core mechanic is, ect, ect.

Basicly he is reprinting rules he already expects people to have and know.

Why reprint all this material. I understand that he wanted to make it stand alone, which it isn't anyway.

This is a shame, since all the orginal material seems to be very good. I would have loved to see more orginal designed material than reprinting rules we all have.

I am realy looking forward to the conversion document.

All in all, Good Job Mr. Cook.

He never intended it to be stand alone, he intended it to be a varient player's handbook, as it says on the front cover, which it is.

 

[Mythtify]

He never intended it to be stand alone, he intended it to be a varient player's handbook, as it says on the front cover, which it is.

Au page 3,
What Other Books Do I Need?

In theory, you don't need any other books. Monte Cooks's Arcana Unearthed contains all you need to play.



The way I read it, it sounds like he is saying that AU is a stand alone product.

 

[Dinkeldog]

I don't want to play a parsing game here.

It's possible you could play with just AU. I think at some point as DM, you'd want the DMG to get some NPC classes and info on different conditions like stunned, blinded, and the like. You might also want the monster manual so that you have the stats for those nifty energy creatures your magister is summoning.

I think the point is that you don't need the PHB or FRCS to play. Although, I suppose you could have a campaign with just PC-classed characters of the AU races.

 

[Ezrael]

It seems to me that some people are saying that yes, AU is sufficient to build an entirely new campaign world around. So bolstered by such arguments, I suppose it's time to bite the bullet and make use of it to do so. I may cheat and take an old campaign idea and entirely retool it to suit AU (although I *know* I'm going to include the Psionics Handbook and make heavy use of Illithids, Githyanki and Githzerai...I'm weak, I love Psi too much to leave it out)

This therefore leads to another question: how hard to people think it would be to extend the magic system changes to the psionics rules? I'm thinking of taking the psion and psychic warrior powers and dividing them into simple, complex and exotic powers...will this require me to entirely retool the point costs for powers, will I need to come up with enhanced versions of same?

Also, how easily does anyone think I can combine AU with the Epic Level Handbook? I realize the ELH isn't Open Content (will the truncated ELH information in the 3.5 DMG become Open, does anyone know?) so I don't expect Malhavoc to release Epic Warmains, Epic Akashics et al, but will I be breaking my spine to try and do it myself?

 

[WizWrm]

This therefore leads to another question: how hard to people think it would be to extend the magic system changes to the psionics rules? I'm thinking of taking the psion and psychic warrior powers and dividing them into simple, complex and exotic powers...will this require me to entirely retool the point costs for powers, will I need to come up with enhanced versions of same?

Psionics are handled entirely differently in Arcana Unearthed. I don't know how much you know, so I'll try to give you the gist of it. Certain spells that are thematically appropriate for psionics (such as read minds, psychic blast, inner world [somewhat like microcosm]) are assigned a psionic descriptor, which means they are accessible to psionically-flavored characters: verrik spellcasters of any kind and mind witches always have access to psionic spells (there are maybe 3-4 per level), even if they're complex (or exotic in the case of the mind witch) - complex meaning only magisters have access to all of them, but with a huge stack of exceptions for every class; and exotic meaning you have to take a feat to be able to cast a specific exotic spell. In addition, you can take the Psion feat which gives ALMOST the same benefit as being a verrik or mind witch, plus access to the "psionic" spell template, which is casting a spell as a mental action only, for a price.

So, yes, psionics are handled but they've been subsumed into the general magic system. You could probably toss some PsiHB powers into the mix as spells, if you wanted, but mind witches are nearly psions as it is, considering the manifestations they get.

Also, how easily does anyone think I can combine AU with the Epic Level Handbook? I realize the ELH isn't Open Content (will the truncated ELH information in the 3.5 DMG become Open, does anyone know?) so I don't expect Malhavoc to release Epic Warmains, Epic Akashics et al, but will I be breaking my spine to try and do it myself?

ELH will supposedly eventually become OGC, but there is a huge queue in front of it, and as you can see, there hasn't been much added since the original SRD. Something about a labor shortage.

It looks to me like it would be a lot of work converting it - if only because AU is so different (and fresh, and fun, and...), and the ELH is designed to be 'another twenty levels' for standard implied-setting D&D. Some of it could work unchanged, but you'd be spending a lot of time designing epic-level progressions, creating appropriate monsters, and writing worthwhile feats for uber-characters to pick up (no undead turning, for example, so that knocks out maybe 4-5 feats from the ELH alone). But considering the amount of effort needed, I personally don't think it would be worth the effort, though your mileage may vary.

[SIDE NOTE: Incidentally, for everyone else, there are six of us in Talking the Talk interested in playing in an Arcana Unearthed PbP game, but no one really wants to GM. If anyone has free time and wants to give it a shot, we'd appreciate it if you'd take a look.]

 

[drnuncheon]

Also, how easily does anyone think I can combine AU with the Epic Level Handbook? I realize the ELH isn't Open Content (will the truncated ELH information in the 3.5 DMG become Open, does anyone know?) so I don't expect Malhavoc to release Epic Warmains, Epic Akashics et al, but will I be breaking my spine to try and do it myself?

The DMG epic stuff is already in the 3.5 SRD.

Some of the classes would be dead easy - warmains come to mind, magisters and mageblades too. Akashics and oathsworn may be tougher, because they're classes of the 'special ability every level' sort.

J

 

[Ezrael]

I did read the AU approach to Psionics but I guess I missed the complete picture you mentioned, WizWrm. That makes for interesting food for thought...I actually *like* the PsiHB approach to psionics and so I may well have to decide if I should bring it in as an alien system of power used by the evil Illithids and their Gith-descended enemies or just go with the AU system. (I suppose while I'm at it I could pick up Mindscapes and see if I like that system better.) Thanks to COC D20 and the Monster Manual, I'm already thinking of ways to work an entire series of inhuman empires crushed under the heel of the Giants into the background.

I probably wouldn't do anything towards converting ELH/the DMG epic stuff until such time as the game was actually rolling, but I'm a sucker for that kind of thing and I know I'd want to do it eventually. Of course, I don't need it to be open content to use in my own game, but it would have been nice to see what Malhavoc would have come up with, if they were of a mind to.

 

[woodelf]

This to me, is VERY significant. Like you, I agree that 3.X has definitely gone too far in making D&D a player-centric game vs. earlier editions. Of course one could argue earlier editions were too DM friendly, but 3.X has overcompensated, IME.

I'd describe it a bit differently: D&D3[.5]E is too rules-centric--the players don't have any more power than in previous versions of D&D, nor than in AU. What AU has done is return some of the power to the play group--focusing on the GM, because it's a fairly gamist game.

Basically, there are two significant distribution-of-power issues when constructing an RPG: between mechanics and group, and between players and GM. I don't see any significant difference in the player/GM balance between D&D3E and AU, but i see a huge difference in the power balance between mechanics and group as a whole. To see a game that actually gives more power to the players, at the expense of the GM, you need to look at something like Over the Edge or Trollbabe, or even our own Four Colors al Fresco.

In fact, now that i think about it, AU actually gives *more* power to the players than D&D3[.5]E--hero points are one of the most basic player-empowerment tools in the RPG toolbox. The simple ability of the players to choose to succeed at something important to them (even if only occasionally--i.e., until the hero points run out) is a *huge* empowerment. Likewise, the ability to create new causes for champions or totems for totem warriors--or even the Unique Spell feat--are all things that give the players more power, even if they include the caveat of GM approval.

 

[woodelf]

AU page 3,

What Other Books Do I Need?

In theory, you don't need any other books. Monte Cooks's Arcana Unearthed contains all you need to play.

The way I read it, it sounds like he is saying that AU is a stand alone product.

Which may be partly marketing-speak. Though, in fairness, *i* consider it standalone. I don't own a single other D20 product 'cept Dynasties & Demagogues, and i don't see any reason i can't run a game using just AU. (If i do, i *will* be tacking on the social-interaction stuff from Dynasties, mind you--but D&D doesn't have that stuff, either.)

I think my favorite bit of WotC OGL-necessitated marketing-speak i've found yet, however, comes from 2 paragraphs further down:

The rules in this book are entirely compatible with other fantasy roleplaying supplements you might already own. In fact, Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed DM's Screen and Player's Guide offers conversions to help you translate your existing campaign material, ...

Lessee--"other fantasy RPing supplements" i already own... Cool! I finally have another book compatible with Aria: Worlds! Or maybe it works with Cugel's Compendium of Indispensable Advantages. And then there's Sky Point & Vivane. And, while we're on really cool fantasy cities, howabout Cliff Spider and Cry-Star? This is gonna be *so* cool, putting all of those together. :-^)

As for translating my existing campaing material, my current campaign is using heavily-modified Ars Magica, hybridized with the D&D3E spell list, for the system. I wonder how comprehensive his conversions will be?...

At least with the Scarred Lands stuff, they're only claiming compatibility with 3rd Edition RPGs, so i *know* it won't work with Ars Magica 4th or Earthdawn (there isn't even a 3rd ed yet).

</rant>
Sorry. I just get sort of sick of RPG publishers talking like D20 System is the only game in town--WotC OGL restrictions notwithstanding. I also think they're shooting themselves in the foot a little bit, when it comes to pretty-much standalone products like AU (and Spycraft, and so on), which clean up or improve the D20 rules significantly, and could very well appeal to non-D&D players (like myself).