AU vs PHB3.5

[2d6]

In my opinion, the integration issues are not overly daunting. And Monte is doing a lot of thinking for you with the DM's Screen and Player's Guide which will be out in August. That will have notes for handling the trickier issues in porting AU to 3.0 or 3.5.

I wondering if AU will "fork" the rules? Even with though AU and DND use the same DMG and MM, with additional companies supporting AU could it get to the point where they really aren't all that compatable after all?

just a thought.

2d6

P.S - AU is in the budget for September.

 

[BryonD]

Hey Thrommel,

Your statement that the magic system is the most radical change sounds consitent with the bits I know so far.

However, aside from game mechanics, how much of the implied setting (Diamond Throne history, racial interactions, class interactions, etc...) is tied to a presumption that the Tolkien style races and standard classes do not exist.

Meaning, what impact would dropping an elven unfettered or dwarven warmain into an AU game have? I understand they would be mechanically balanced. But would this take away from the feel of the game?

 

[Thrommel]

Well as you say, mechanically that's no big deal.

But the entire setting is tied to the idea that the Tolkien races (apart from humans) don't exist in any significant way. Because that's the point -- to shake up the game and get some new themes going.

One big thing this does is gives the DM and the players room to discover what the world is all about. You don't just go "Yah. Orcs. We hate orcs. They're evil. It sez so in the stat block. And in that one book I read. I a'tack 'em."

Instead you start to wonder why the verrik are so odd. And are the giants patronizing heavies or wise caretakers? And what does it mean to have an entire race that's tiny and can fly everywhere.

People can put elves in AU. It gives a person something familiar to stick with and won't break the game.

But realize you are diminishing that initial sense of wonder you're going to get from exploring the new themes and possibilities in the book.

-Thrommel

 

[Breezly]

One big thing this does is gives the DM and the players room to discover what the world is all about. You don't just go "Yah. Orcs. We hate orcs. They're evil. It sez so in the stat block. And in that one book I read. I a'tack 'em."

Sure, I can see that from the book. But, can't I do that now? I mean, as a DM I can take everything that is presented in the MM and make it my own simply by saying all orcs are LG now. I don't need a new setting to do that.

The interest you suggest by exploring new things can be gained by me going out to buy the Fiend Folio or other similar book. I don't need AU for that.

I understand what you are trying to say. However, I can get this within the framework of 3 and 3.5.

I am not trying to downplay AU, as I said, I will buy it. But I will buy it after I pick up the 3.5e books.

Monte may have been right about one thing from his review. There will be a lot of house rules, but I suggest that they will be a combination of AU and 3.5. Or, 3.5 with AU sprinkled in.

Breezy

Edit to fix typos.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It kinda works like this: I have $35 set aside in my 'gaming budget' each month to buy something. If I want BOTH AU and the 3.5 PH, I suddenly have a conflict...who gets my $35?

Most will choose 3.5. Bigger changes, bigger revisions, more essential, etc. Thus, they WON'T buy AU. And in three months when they've got all the 3.5 books, there'll be something else interesting that they want, along with AU...

So it stresses the market, unless you have a big gaming budget, or only want one or the other.

 

[BryonD]

It kinda works like this: I have $35 set aside in my 'gaming budget' each month to buy something. If I want BOTH AU and the 3.5 PH, I suddenly have a conflict...who gets my $35?

Most will choose 3.5. Bigger changes, bigger revisions, more essential, etc. Thus, they WON'T buy AU. And in three months when they've got all the 3.5 books, there'll be something else interesting that they want, along with AU...

So it stresses the market, unless you have a big gaming budget, or only want one or the other.

Yeah, but that is not really and AU vs. 3.5 thing.

That is an everything coming out this month against everything else coming out this month and everything else that came out in the last few months.

 

[BryonD]

Thanks Thrommel.

I agree with Breezy. But I also think there a lot to be said for the players REALLY not knowing what to expect, rather than it simply being a matter of whether the DM choose to stick to the stereotype or run counter to them.

 

[Desdichado]

It kinda works like this: I have $35 set aside in my 'gaming budget' each month to buy something. If I want BOTH AU and the 3.5 PH, I suddenly have a conflict...who gets my $35?

Most will choose 3.5. Bigger changes, bigger revisions, more essential, etc. Thus, they WON'T buy AU. And in three months when they've got all the 3.5 books, there'll be something else interesting that they want, along with AU...

So it stresses the market, unless you have a big gaming budget, or only want one or the other.

That doesn't mean AU competes directly with 3.5 any more than it means AU competes with every other product on the market. In that sense, the comparison is fairly meaningless. I'm talking more specifically about AU and the 3.5PHB being an either/or decision for gamers based on what they offer. In my opinion, they don't offer a similar enough "solution" to compete head to head directly, so to speak. But, yeah, of course, they both compete for the same resources. But so does FFG's Sorcery and Steam book, but it hardly competes directly with either of them either.

 

[Monte At Home]

It's not my intention that AU would compete with 3.5. Here's why:

1. It's ridiculous. Based on my sales expectations and what I expect 3.5 to do, it will sell about 1/10 or so of what just one of the books (probably the PH) will sell. That's not competition. Not really.

2. Arcana Unearthed, like every other Malhavoc product, and like every d20 product--although AU is technically not d20--relies on D&D in some way. And, like it or not, 3.5 is now D&D. The whole point of the OGL is for small publishers (like me) to put out books that support D&D, and thus increase D&D sales. We all know that. So even if I came up with some magical product that made everyone buy it and not 3.5, I'd only be shooting myself in the foot in the long run.

If you've only got 30 bucks to spend in July on a game product, I'd expect you'd probably buy 3.5 (actually, you're hosed because you can't buy 3.5 for $30, but that's another issue). It would be unrealistic for me to think otherwise, and perhaps counterproductive in the long term as well. That's why I've said previously that it's both fortunate and unfortunate that AU is coming out at the same time as 3.5. Fortunate, because everyone's already sort of geared up for change. Unfortunate, because gaming dollars are going to be stretched thin.

 

[Numion]

Sure, I can see that from the book. But, can't I do that now? I mean, as a DM I can take everything that is presented in the MM and make it my own simply by saying all orcs are LG now. I don't need a new setting to do that.

Of course you can do that. I guess the point here is that Monte has done really lot of changes for those who don't want to or can't do it by themselves. Like me

I could easily change one alignment in the MM, tweak this and that a little and make houserules. But a 250+ pages books of changes that actually are balanced and make for good gaming? I don't think I could do that. And that's where mr. Cook comes in.

It's not like he had monopoly on doing variant stuff - it all depends on the fact that he can probably pull those variants off better than 99% of folks out there. That's why I'm betting my 37.5 euros on AU.

(It's not a decision between 3.5e and AU. I just don't see 3.5e as a good buy, because most of the material I have already. 112.5 euros (and euro is worth more than a dollar, IIRC!) for very little new material is too much for even me! That, and I really really hate the forcefeeding of miniatures..)