Avenging Paladin - Fair or not?

[JiffyPopTart]

Avenging paladins are less MAD. Cha paladins need cha, wis, con, and str if hammer rhythm, and dex as well if they want HBO...
I play a str paladin and the powers are fine. if anything the utilities need work, not the attacks.
STR paladins are less MAD

Friendly advice.

If over half of the "words" in your post are abbreviations and/or acronyms it makes it REALLY hard to understand.

I am actually playing a paladin and am pretty sharp on the rules and I have no idea what you are saying.

DS

 

[inati]

Str based Paladins will qualify for more weapon feats, have a stronger oppurtunity attack, better Fort (Important to defender to avoid pushes), and more multiclass options. You sacrifice your powers for better FUNDAMENTALS.

If this was truly the case, and the design intention of WotC, then all Str based builds for all classes should be penalized in the same manner. Since this is most certainly not the case, I agree with Stalker0, this was just plain sloppy design on their part.

 

[Minigiant]

If this was truly the case, and the design intention of WotC, then all Str based builds for all classes should be penalized in the same manner. Since this is most certainly not the case, I agree with Stalker0, this was just plain sloppy design on their part.

It's sloppy design but it works out. All the Str vs Non Str class's Str have seem to have an attribute flaw or some penalty. But the rangers got fixed with free Toughness so they survive almost as long as a Dex ranger.

 

[Bond James Bond]

I am actually playing a paladin and am pretty sharp on the rules and I have no idea what you are saying.

DS

MAD = multiple ability dependent (hope i spelled that right), meaning the class needs several high ability scores

HBO = Heavy Blade Opportunity (feat)

See, thats the good thing about not having english as your first language: you learn stuff like MAD just like you learn all other vocabulary

cheers

 

[tiornys]

If this was truly the case, and the design intention of WotC, then all Str based builds for all classes should be penalized in the same manner. Since this is most certainly not the case, I agree with Stalker0, this was just plain sloppy design on their part.

Actually, I disagree. I think it's intentional design. As has been pointed out, many of the Cha-based powers have good effects on misses. Also, notice that under the Avenging Paladin blurb, they suggest charisma as your second-best score, not wisdom. This is because a paladin who neglects charisma takes a rather large hit to divine challenge, which significantly hampers his ability to be a good defender. So, I think they wanted to emphasize charisma as being important to all paladins.

I'm not sure I agree with the design decision, but I do think it was a decision, not an error.

t~

 

[Mengu]

Avenging paladins should probably have their second best stat as Charisma anyway (as suggested in PHB). I guess I don't see this giant problem with picking a charisma power here and there for an Avenging Paladin. Some of the Charisma powers feel more "avenging" than the strength powers anyway.

Imagining the stat layout for an Avenging Paladin, most non-human races would have 18/16 or 16/16 in Strength and Charisma, and a 14 in Wisdom.

Dragonborn S18, C13, D10, I8, W14, Ch16
Dwarf S16, C14, D10, I8, W14, Ch16
Eladrin - forget it.
Elf S16, C12, D12, I8, W14, Ch16
Half-elf S16, C15, D10, I8, W14, Ch16
Halfling S16, C12, D13, I8, W14, Ch16
Human S18, C13, D10, I8, W14, Ch14
Tiefling S16, C13, D10, I10, W14, Ch16

Looking at the 9th level daily powers, two of them are close bursts, so you are still expected to use them while engaging enemies. Also both powers attack Will which is typically a low defense. Ranged daily paladin powers in general are actually less to my liking, than the lack of a 9th level strength based power.

I have to admit, the avenging paladin is my least favorite build from the PHB, but that's more a matter of my dislike of their powers overall.

 

[zillah]

Friendly advice.

If over half of the "words" in your post are abbreviations and/or acronyms it makes it REALLY hard to understand.

I am actually playing a paladin and am pretty sharp on the rules and I have no idea what you are saying.

DS

Avenging paladins are less multiple attribute dependent. Charisma paladins need charisma, wisdom, constitution and strength if they want hammer rhythm, and dexterity as well if they want Heavy Blade Opportunity.

I play a strength paladin and the powers are fine. If anything utilities need work not the attacks.
Strength paladins are less Multiple Attribute Dependent.

Hope that helps...the rules don't really have anything to do with what I was trying to say

 

[Plane Sailing]

Traditionally paladins were always highly dependent on charisma.

Maybe the designers just wanted to encourage even str based paladins to not dump charisma?

 

[elecgraystone]

It seems to be intended to work like that. WoTC suggests that paladins either have their best or second best score in charisma. Taking that into account, powers based on your second best stat doesn't sound unfair.

 

[vhailor]

Thank you all for your replies. They were very helpful and I will try some of them.
I never wanted to imply that an Avenging Paladin is unplayable and that there aren't alternatives. For me it is just a matter of balance. I found it extremely strange that none of the three powers at level 9 depended on strength, so I thought I'd mention it. It doesn't feel right when they say: "No, you won't use your highest attribute to attack.

I also apologise for the lack of commas or any misspelling, but English is not my native language.