[B.A.D.D.] Dragon Spell List Feedback

[CRGreathouse]

Righteous Might - the Dragon gets ONE SIZE CLASS LARGER, its damage dice increases, AND it gains +4 strength. For a Huge creature, it becomes gargantuan and (IIRC according to Sage Advice) gains all the strength and CON bonuses that entails (although it gains the penalties to Attacks and AC, too). A Size increase is a HUGE deal for a dragon (no pun intended).

You don't get MM enlargement bonuses from righeous might.

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Poison - not added
Spell immunity - added
Righteous might - added
Unholy aura - not added (maybe later for only evil)
Fire storm - not added (maybe later for only fire)
Miracle - already added

As for implosion, I'd like to hear some opinions on it. It's good, but is it good enought to bump off one of the other 3 9th-level spells? Fortitude negates, remember.

 

[Henry]

You don't get MM enlargement bonuses from righteous might.

Does anyone else have a confirm on this? I could have sworn I saw a rules post on the previous boards (prior to Mid-January) where someone posted a rules reply from Skip Williams that said that the size class DID give the caster the +8 STR, +4 CON, -1 AC, etc. The question was in regard to a cleric (medium-size) who cast the spell. Perhaps I am confusing two separate tables, however?

Even so, would the Dragon get to do the improved damage from being a size class larger as mentioned in their write-up in the MM? If they ARE one size larger, then their size would do different claw damage, wing damage, etc. according to the Dragon Entry in the MM. Is this correct? If not technically correct, it would still sound reasonable.

 

[Wippit Guud]

Level 2:
Swap out Fog Cloud for Misdirection. Extremely useful if scrying a party before they cast scry themselves, mistlead the spell to the wrong place, even a rival dragon!

Level 5:
Swap out Summon Monster V for Wall of Force. In addition to be used to cut off escapes, using it sphere option against an enemy takes him out of combat, or at least uses up a Dispel Magic, which lets the dragons keep his spells longer.

Level 6:
Swap out Programmed Image for Analyze Dweomer. Combined with the scrying spells, the dragons will know exactly what the party has when it attacks, and can plan to counter those effects.

 

[bret]

Level 6:
Swap out Programmed Image for Analyze Dweomer. Combined with the scrying spells, the dragons will know exactly what the party has when it attacks, and can plan to counter those effects.

The party is going to stay within Close range of a dragon for the whole 8 hour casting time?

I can understand a Dragon taking Analyze Dweomer so it knows what it's own stuff does. However I do not believe it would allow the dragon to analyze what magical equipment the party was carrying.

The other problem being having to rest after casting the spell.

 

[Wippit Guud]

"Who may be at any distance", if he scry's them from a far enough distance, he'll have time to figure out what they're carrying.

But, yeah, it may be too unwieldy.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I could have sworn I saw a rules post on the previous boards (prior to Mid-January) where someone posted a rules reply from Skip Williams that said that the size class DID give the caster the +8 STR, +4 CON, -1 AC, etc. The question was in regard to a cleric (medium-size) who cast the spell. Perhaps I am confusing two separate tables, however?

Yes, you're confusing two different things. The Sage did rule at one point (incorrectly, IMNSHO) that the dragon disciple got MM advancement bonuses; he may and may not have retracted this. He never said that RM gave this, though.

Still, righteous might is a good spell - it does, in fact, advance the dragon's weapons by one step (e.g. 2d8 -> 4d6). The +4 Str doesn't hurt, either, though the size might...

Quick rules Q: Can a Colossal dragon use RM?

 

[Henry]

Quick rules Q: Can a Colossal dragon use RM?

Scarrrrryy!

I don't see why not, but the size would of course not increase, unless the DM is into a little extrapolation work...

And the +4 to STR, would still remain useful, even if the physical damage did not increase. It would still be worthwhile for any dragon to have in its repertoire, because they would have used it when younger.

The only thing that bugs me about the dragons is that Black Dragons and White dragons (whites, especially) are such relative wimps compared to the others. But that (and the fact that Red dragons have high wisdoms yet are called "impulsive") is food for another day.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Here's the really interesting thing - if RM works for C dragons (but doesn't up the size), it makes RM useful at all sizes except G. When you're G, the additional -4 attack penalty is much too unwieldy...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I don't think that implosion is such a good idea; it forces the dragon to do nothing but concentrate for 4 rounds. Granted, it's easy for a dragon to concentrate, but it's not good to sit back and try to kill players while their tactics are changing. I'd go with destruction myself, since unless they have death ward active, it does at least 10d6 damage.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Destruction is in (for cleric casters) and implosion is out.

On the subject of destruction - how do you think its focus would/should work, considering that dragons aren't really divine casters?