B5 Earth Alliance Factbook - How many people can you offend?

[ddougan]

I have no problem with your objection to the author's views as presented in the book. In fact, I would tend to agree with quite a bit of your assesment.

The fact that his opinions are right wing, left wing, or otherwise should have no bearing on your post. This isn't a political forum, and you cannot attack the author for his political viewpoint by pointing out 'right wing' in a negative connotation.

If you took out the part about the author's (percieved) political affiliations, then you'd be presenting a fair argument against the words in the book without being derogatory yourself. At this point, pointing out his political views in a negative manner is no different than his use of stereotypes in a negative manner.

Fair point - I'll remove the reference to right wing.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

It's ironic that we humans have fought, warred, and bickered over differences and cultural misunderstandings for millenia...and a book about Earth shows up and sparks a "debate" over phraseology and implied meanings. It's almost symbolic.

I can't say more till I peruse the book myself.

 

[D.Shaffer]

The thing that gets me is that we see this happening with NON human races all the time. Honestly, how often do you NOT see broad stereotypes associated with a non-human race in game products?

 

[ddougan]

The thing that gets me is that we see this happening with NON human races all the time. Honestly, how often do you NOT see broad stereotypes associated with a non-human race in game products?

heh, true, but who are we offending in that case? If an author is making up a fictional race, then its fine to define them as stereotypes (in fact, most RPGs and movies I've seen define alien races through a very small number of dominant traits). It may not be very inventive, and he may not win any literary prizes for it, but it seems more acceptable to define other races by dominant traits because we're not actually offending them.

As long as the non-human races are not clearly intended to portray human species/nationalities, then I really don't see an issue.

Of course, our blatant alienism could all be the reason the dirty bug eyed alien weirdos want to come to Earth and destroy us all

 

[D.Shaffer]

As long as the non-human races are not clearly intended to portray human species/nationalities, then I really don't see an issue.

The issue being, the author likely wrote the human races the same way for the same reason. It's easier to write a broad stereotype, especially when you have limited space to enter things in. It's not the first time it's happened, and it likely wont be the last time.

 

[LoneWolf23]

Haven't read the book, but it seems to me the author could've saved himself a lot of trouble and time just by saying "while human culture, as a whole, has adapted to both technological innovations and alien contact, individual human sub-cultures have held on to their racial and cultural identities with a kind of stubborn persistance."

"Thus, for all the changes that have come to Earth in the 23rd century, humans hold on to the multiple traditions and customs of their forefathers: Thus, humans of italien descent hold to the same values as italiens of the 21st century, americans of the 23rd century are very similar to americans of the 21st century, and an irishman from the 21st century would find much in common with an irishman from the 23rd century. While the language would definetly have evolved over 200 years, there would be enough common points for recognition."

...There. Both relatively innoffensive, yet strongly informative. Would that work better?

 

[ddougan]

Haven't read the book, but it seems to me the author could've saved himself a lot of trouble and time just by saying "while human culture, as a whole, has adapted to both technological innovations and alien contact, individual human sub-cultures have held on to their racial and cultural identities with a kind of stubborn persistance."

I understand what you are saying, but the author hasn't tried to project current racial and cultural habits, he's taken extreme stereotype and racist views and projected them as the norm amongst entire nations.

For example, his suggestion that the Irish nation is one of terrorists.

 

[ddougan]

The issue being, the author likely wrote the human races the same way for the same reason. It's easier to write a broad stereotype, especially when you have limited space to enter things in. It's not the first time it's happened, and it likely wont be the last time.

Fine if people take short cuts when describing alien (ie fictional) races. We see this all the time (not only in terms of races, but planets as well, where alien planets tend to have one major overriding feature - a desert world, an ice world etc).

But in this case, these are real people he is offending - and not just with broad stereotypes, but also with racially offensive remarks.

Why should we as gamers accept this form of racist behaviour?

 

[Darrin Drader]

You know, this argument has already been done to death and at this point its just getting annoying. Mongoose apologized for the remarks and said that what was written is just the opinion of one person. To continue berating them for something that has already been sufficiently addressed really accomplishes nothing.

I am of a strong German heritage, and I don't necessarily agree with everything said about Germans in the book, but I don't see much of a point bringing up this slight over and over again. I do find it interesting that on the Mongoose boards, it is the Germans who have been overly outraged and aggresive about defending their country and its people, even though, as pointed out here, many nations received equally grave insults within the text of the book. In many ways their behavior online ratifies the very stereotype from the book that they are trying to overcome.

At any rate, its a non-issue. Its not much worse than the writeups we see about various nations or races in most roleplaying books, and the only reason that this is causing such a stir is because it is discussing things that exist in the real world. Imagine what the orcs would have to say if they actually existed and were given the chance to respond to the way they are portrayed in RPG books.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Imagine what the orcs would have to say if they actually existed and were given the chance to respond to the way they are portrayed in RPG books.

We'd have a very active Orc Anti-Defamation League boycotting WotC
and various RPG companies, and lawsuits would fly like crazy.