BADC: Bothered About Disposable Charisma, Where Can I Find More Info?

[Mouseferatu]

Your groups haven't heard of the Cardinal Rule: Never Split the Party?

Sure they have. Sometimes groups do it anyway, just because it's the best option at the time. Sometimes they do it because they're in town and not actively engaged in anything dangerous (that they know of).

And sometimes--though not often, I'll admit, since I dislike running multiple groups for more than a few minutes at a stretch--a certain nasty-minded DM pulls a trick on them that splits them up regardless of ther intentions...

 

[hammymchamham]

... if we notice him in the first place.

True. He's a deep gnome, and has something around a +34 to hide. So you never would notice him

 

[cbatt]

Hong nice set of Cha based feats. Quick suggestion: Fortune’s Favour - make it so that they can keep the best of the two rolls. I mean, it's only a single roll, once per day. Whatever whatever... those feats are probably going into my game.

As for those who are having trouble dealing with Cha in a hack-n-slash game, here's a suggestion: In combat, reverse the effects of Cha. This is to say that those with the lowest Cha could provoke the strongest reaction and are most likely to draw the attention of the opponents. High Cha characters could be perceived as less of a threat.

My thinking is along the lines of high Cha characters being able to exert better control over how they project themselves; like an innate skill (ie. they're not "always on"). Whereas low Cha characters have little to no control over the image that they project.

Just a thought.

 

[Stalker0]

I still like the idea of going with charisma as more of a luck stat. some of hong's feats are like that as well. What does everyone else think of that?

 

[hong]

I still like the idea of going with charisma as more of a luck stat. some of hong's feats are like that as well. What does everyone else think of that?

Well, _I_ think it's a great idea....

 

[rangerjohn]

Well I agree with Mouse. I even tried to post this when the thread started, to find out I couldn't post. Going by the descriptions wisdom is perception, intuition, and perhaps piety. Charisma is force of persanality, the way you look, and SENSE OF SELF. So why is the will save assigned to wisdom?

 

[Celtavian]

Re

I really don't understand at all why people think Charisma is a dump stat. There are so many classes that have useful class skills and abilities that are based on the Charisma ability.

As a DM and player, I have found that a high Charisma is nearly essential for all classes save the Fighter or Barbarian.

How are you running your games where Charisma is a dump stat? I certainly don't allow a person with an 8 Charisma to bluff his way past anything. His chances are fairly slim considering he will receive a minus on any opposed roll for bluff or diplomacy.

Sure they can roleplay being a good talker, but if they have taken a poor Charisma I will not give them any kind of bonus no matter how good they lie. I just translate the conversation as if the person had an 8 Charisma.

Even if the person creates a convinving lie, I would still assume that vocal tone and facial expressions negatively affected the bluff attempt. There are plenty of intelligent people with unattractive voices or who speak in monotonous tone. These aspects of Charisma also affect social interactions as much as looks or personality.

As far as Charisma based powers, D&D has never had so many Charisma based abilities such as Sorcerer/Bard spellcasting, Cleric/Paladin turning, Paladin divine abilities, and a great many useful skills purely Charisma based. Even a wizard Enchantment specialist would benefit from having a high Charisma due to the opposed rolls required to command a charmed subject.

I see no reason whatsoever to modify Charisma unless the DM is failing to use rolls to determine important social exchanges between the PC's and NPC's. Charisma is a highly necessary ability score that greatly impacts any game in 3rd edition D&D.

And if you are one of those DM's who wishes to arbitrate roleplaying situations based upon the natural Charisma of your players, then get rid of the Charisma ability altogether. You can just tie divine abilities to another stat such as Wisdom.

 

[hong]

Well I agree with Mouse. I even tried to post this when the thread started, to find out I couldn't post. Going by the descriptions wisdom is perception, intuition, and perhaps piety. Charisma is force of persanality, the way you look, and SENSE OF SELF. So why is the will save assigned to wisdom?

I see the current paradigm like this:

Wisdom - Force of will. Affects how well you can withstand outside influences on your psyche.

Charisma - Force of personality. Affects how easily you can shape the outside world according to your desires.

This isn't an exact model (eg save DCs for divine spellcasters should be based on Cha, not Wis) but it's close enough.

 

[hong]

Re: Re

I see no reason whatsoever to modify Charisma unless the DM is failing to use rolls to determine important social exchanges between the PC's and NPC's.

Ain't many meaningful social exchanges in the dungeon.


Hong "not... THAT... kind of dungeon" Ooi

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Re: Re: Re

Ain't many meaningful social exchanges in the dungeon.

Besides, instead of negotiating, it's better to kill the bad guys and take their phat loot...