Barbarian With More Than One Dimension?

[LordGraz'zt]

Thankyou for all the feedback.

What I have tried to do here is create a Barbarian with a "shadowy" type of feel.

What I have done here is used a background to grab Thievery and then MC as Assassin to pick up Stealth.

I probably should have chosen the Assassin MC feat that gives Shadow Step instead but the temptation of scouting out an area, dropping shrounds on a target and then come in charging was too much.

The idea is that the PC will be able to act as the party scout (no Perception obviously but then Rogues do not have it either) and with his Intimidate and Utility power that allows him to use Intimidate in place of Diplomacy for Diplomacy rolls he also has some "face" aspects also.

Do you think I have achieved what I set out to do?

Any suggestions for improvements? Both mechanically and thematically.


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 6
Half-Orc, Barbarian
Feral Might: Whirling Slayer
Background: Occupation - Criminal (Thievery class skill)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 14, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8.


AC: 17 Fort: 20 Reflex: 17 Will: 13
HP: 59 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +11, Intimidate +17, Thievery +11, Stealth +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +3, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +3, Endurance +7, Heal +3, History +3, Insight +3, Nature +3, Perception +3, Religion +3, Streetwise +2, Athletics +8

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Waraxe)
Level 2: Strong-Arm Tactics
Level 4: Shadow Initiate
Level 6: Hidden Insight

POWERS
Barbarian at-will 1: Pressing Strike
Barbarian at-will 1: Howling Strike
Barbarian encounter 1: Avalanche Strike
Barbarian daily 1: Tyrant's Rage
Barbarian utility 2: Combat Sprint
Barbarian encounter 3: Brutal Slam
Barbarian daily 5: Razor Wind Rage
Barbarian utility 6: Try the Stick

ITEMS
Waraxe (2)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

 

[Mengu]

Problem, you don't make a good scout if you can't see jack (and with Perception 3, you can't see jack). If you want to be the acting scout, you probably want to train that rather than Acrobatics.

I'd knock some points of Strength, put them into Dex and Wis. I'd also put the 8 into Int rather than Cha.

And I'd feel pretty naked playing a barbarian who is not trained in Athletics, but you can only do so much.

 

[LordGraz'zt]

Good call on changing Acrobatics for Perception.

 

[Runestar]

Who says you need "face" skills like bluff at all? Excessive reliance on skill rolling hurts what the game is all about: role playing!

And even the best roleplaying in the world is kinda moot when you don't have the stats to support it. The most elaborate bluff in the game is worthless if you still fail to beat the prescribed DC.

So yeah, you want to roleplay, you better have the hard crunch to back it up.

 

[LordGraz'zt]

Perfect Runestar - was trying to think how to say this but you nailed it perfectly.

 

[Boy Genius]

And even the best roleplaying in the world is kinda moot when you don't have the stats to support it. The most elaborate bluff in the game is worthless if you still fail to beat the prescribed DC.

So yeah, you want to roleplay, you better have the hard crunch to back it up.

Hm, ok yes but part of my point is that you should work it out with your DM that if he/she think that the RP was good enough, it should influence check, OR eliminate the need for a roll.
It's worked for me lots of times. Couldn't hurt to try it.

 

[LordGraz'zt]

But if what you were saying was the case in most games - then skills themselves have no meaning.

Why take acrobatics - when you can just explain to the DM all the awesome tricks you are doing?

If it doesnt apply to physical activities and just things like talking - then its unfair to those that take those skills.

 

[Boy Genius]

I don't think it has to be an "all or nothing" scenario. It should be on a case by case basis. In other words you won't likely be in situations where you have to use skills you don't possess i.e. bluff, but when you do...maybe you could role play your way into it.

What I'm trying to get at here is that you should be encouraged to play any style character you want. And the DM should work with you so that everyone has fun, without having something as arbitrary as a single skill roll completely trash your character concept.

It is not as black and white as saying skills have no meaning. If this were the case, then by definition all home-brewed rules should be disallowed across the board. I think that would make the game much less fun.

 

[Wepwawet]

I get what you mean, Boy Genius, but as an RPG, one is supposed to role play the character.
If you create a guy with no training in Diplomacy or Bluff, you shouldn't have him bluffing or being all diplomat. It doesn't matter the player's skill at those.
Player != Character

 

[jbear]

But if what you were saying was the case in most games - then skills themselves have no meaning.

Why take acrobatics - when you can just explain to the DM all the awesome tricks you are doing?

If it doesnt apply to physical activities and just things like talking - then its unfair to those that take those skills.

I think the 'ideal' is a happy combination of both. Stats influence roleplaying, roleplaying influences modifiers and you should role your rolls.

As you use acrobacy as an example to underline the unfairness that a professional acrobat should be out-flickfacked by a dwarf who imagines themself as an acrobat, I am reminded of an occaision my group's ranger wanted to be involved in a social skill challenge. Her Cha is 8. The situation was thus: The mayor they were trying to put to sleep was insisting they all should share the spiked wine they had bought him as a gift (gift in german = poison, so indeed it was a gift). The ranger wanted to distract him, so someone else could deal with the situation, and so suddenly did a backwards flip in the middle of his office. She rolled a 1. I asked her to describe what happened.

She said she had totally miscalculated the space and flipped too near the mayor, her foot flicked out catching him full on in the face, causing her to lose her balance completely, she landed flat on top of the mayor. A pretty good description of a critical fail in my opinion. So chalk up a fail on the skill challenge, the mayor furiously expells her from his presence, forbidding her to ever talk to him again. However, I decided he was so furious and flabbergasted that he popped open the spiked wine and downed half of it in one long swallow, in order to calm himself down. So they achieved their objective, everyone had a laugh, the skill challenge moved on to the next phase.

The same ranger is constantly trying to seduce any healthy males she meets. Despite her charisma being so terrible. Of course her perception of herself, and that which others have of her are two different things. This has lead to some very amusing and comical situations. More often than not she is mistaken as a man.

Anyone can use 'Diplomacy'... not everyone is good at it! Your barbarian can try to be really scary, or knowledgeable... that doesn't mean he is. As grandma used to say, you're only as limited by your character's stats as you make yourself.

Here is a look at another option for your whirling slayer barbarian. I have gone with the Hunter background to buff your perception. I picked up stealth via ranger multiclass. Mechanically similar to assassin, thematically, more scout-like... which with stealth and perception now, you make a great scout. Being a ranger obviously is not quite as cool as assassin when your bragging about your past in the pub but it opens up some great ranger powers designed for 2WeaponFighters.

Also the Ranger Half-Orc feat means that you can reroll a missed charge attack on your quarry which is pretty nifty to open up a battle. Nothing worse than charging in, and missing, squandering your quarry for that round (you only have 2 rounds...) and looking like a gimp, surrounded by a horde of foes mocking you for your incompetence.

I have also seriously buffed your DEX. You don't need your STR to be 20. If accuracy is an issue, take bastard swords instead or war axes. You can't kill anything if you are dead, now can you. Low HP, Low defenses and high damage... that makes you a prime target for any monster group woth their salt. Other barbarians gain THPs.... the wirling slayer does not. You want a decent AC. This also makes you stealthier.

I have also taken several encounter utilites that give you Saving Throws. Your Will defence is terrible. You are going to be immobilised or dazed a lot, so you are going to want to have some back up plans to get yourself out of them fast (and by yourself).

Anyway, check it out. it might give you a few ideas.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 6
Half-Orc, Barbarian
Feral Might: Whirling Slayer
Background: Occupation - Hunter (+2 to Perception)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 13, Dex 19, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 10.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 10.

AC: 21 Fort: 19 Reflex: 18 Will: 13
HP: 58 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 14
TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +11, Intimidate +16, Perception +10, Stealth +11
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Arcana +2, Bluff +3, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering +3, Endurance +5, Heal +3, History +2, Insight +3, Nature +3, Religion +2, Streetwise +3, Thievery +6
FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Waraxe)
Level 2: Warrior of the Wild
Level 4: Strong-Arm Tactics
Level 6: Furious Charge
POWERS
Barbarian at-will 1: Whirling Rend
Barbarian at-will 1: Howling Strike
Barbarian encounter 1: Whirling Frenzy
Barbarian daily 1: Thunder Hooves Rage
Barbarian utility 2: Shrug It Off
Barbarian encounter 3: Brutal Slam
Barbarian daily 5: Rage of the Crimson Hurricane
Barbarian utility 6: Run Rampant
ITEMS
Waraxe (2), Hide Armor
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======