Bard questions: My Players stay out

[SidusLupus]

If you're a player of mine and still reading this, get lost.






That having being said:

With bard inspire courage, the rules state once a bard is inspiring, an ally only needs to see and hear the bard to gain the bonus, and when the bard stops, the inspiration continues for 5 rounds.

What happens if the bard and the allies abruptly stop being allies mid combat, and mid inspiration? Does the inspiration cease instantly? Continue for 5 rounds and stop?

Also, what exactly does, see and hear the bard mean? Line of sight, but what kind of range is it? In a still quiet place that could be a very large range, but say during a pitched battle on a beach at the ocean what's the range? 50 ft? 100 ft?

Also, unlike the higher level inspirations, inspire courage has unlimited targets as long as they are allies?

One more question, how long do you figure a bard could keep this up, uninterrupted?

That's all for now, I have some evil bard plans to contemplate.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Let's post the rules on Inspire Courage first:

Inspire Courage (Su): A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use song or poetics to inspire courage in his allies (including himself ), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the bard sing. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 8th level, and every six bard levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th). Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability.

On to the questions!

With bard inspire courage, the rules state once a bard is inspiring, an ally only needs to see and hear the bard to gain the bonus, and when the bard stops, the inspiration continues for 5 rounds.

Actually, it only stipulates that you must hear the bard.

What happens if the bard and the allies abruptly stop being allies mid combat, and mid inspiration? Does the inspiration cease instantly? Continue for 5 rounds and stop?

I'd treat it the same as the bard ceasing singing or the recipient no longer being able to hear the bard: the effects last for a further 5 rounds, and then end.

Also, what exactly does, see and hear the bard mean? Line of sight, but what kind of range is it? In a still quiet place that could be a very large range, but say during a pitched battle on a beach at the ocean what's the range? 50 ft? 100 ft?

Hear the bard means "hear the bard." Unlike, say, Countersong, which stipulates a 30' range, Inspire Courage doesn't seem to have a maximum range.

As for how to determine whether or not someone can hear the bard, unless you require Listen checks to hear shouted commands during battle, then anyone reasonably close should be able to hear the bard.

If you had to come up with a system, then use Listen checks. The bard is trying to be heard, so the base DC should be lower than that for someone merely talking (DC 0). However, the listeners are going to be distracted, so the DC increases by 5. There's a -1 penalty per 10' between the bard and the listener. Possibly there's also a circumstance modifier for noisy surroundings - like, say, +2 to +4.

Also, unlike the higher level inspirations, inspire courage has unlimited targets as long as they are allies?

Yep.

One more question, how long do you figure a bard could keep this up, uninterrupted?

RAW? Indefinately. I've seen some people propose Constitution checks after a number of rounds, similar to the rules on running for long periods of time.

 

[Psimancer]

Ally: my most hated word in the d20/D&D lexicon…

In the SRD, an ally is defined as; “…a creature friendly to you. In most cases, references to ‘allies’ include yourself…”

Therefore, by the RAW, it all depends on the creature’s attitude…

So, if the enemy 'knows the Bard is an ally at the beginning of a fight, they too would get the bonus, and it would only be through misdeed that the party would change their attitude towards the bard and therefore lose the bonus…

Warning! The following is a Rant and not RAW…

Personally, I think this is rubbish and deem an ‘ally’ (as far as magic is concerned) to be labelled as such though nomination during the spellcasting or ability activation process. Therefore, if the bard was to change sides mid-fight, he would have to activate another use of his inspire courage to cover his new ‘allies’, and drop his old…

 

[Psimancer]

What happens if the bard and the allies abruptly stop being allies mid combat, and mid inspiration? Does the inspiration cease instantly? Continue for 5 rounds and stop?

...The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for 5 rounds thereafter.

I'd treat it the same as the bard ceasing singing or the recipient no longer being able to hear the bard: the effects last for a further 5 rounds, and then end.

I disagree here. The linger effect is only applicable to allies, and given the fact the party are no longer 'allies', the bonus would stop immediately. Having said that, it is a little grey and open to interpretation...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Having said that, it is a little grey and open to interpretation...

It lasts for 5 rounds *after* an ally can no longer hear the bard.

In other words, each round, perform the test: "Are you an ally and can you hear the bard?"

If the test evaluates to negative, it lasts for 5 more rounds. Either "I am not an ally" or "I can no longer hear the bard" cause the above test to evaluate as negative.

 

[SidusLupus]

Ah right line of sight is for some of the other songs.

I was figuring the 5 round duration after the betrayal too, but wasnt sure.

I think for simplicity I may just slap a range on it since I don't want to have to deal with 20 something listen checks each round. (woo big battle!) Fascinate has a 90 feet range from the bard, would 100 feet be reasonable for the inspiration?

Thanks for the answers, now I just have to wait another week to spring it on them. I'm pretty sure they may be slightly horrified!

 

[Psimancer]

It lasts for 5 rounds *after* an ally can no longer hear the bard.

In other words, each round, perform the test: "Are you an ally and can you hear the bard?"

If the test evaluates to negative, it lasts for 5 more rounds. Either "I am not an ally" or "I can no longer hear the bard" cause the above test to evaluate as negative.

Hmm… yep, you got me. Point conceded.

 

[Rabelais]

Inspire Courage

"must be able to hear the bard..."

In the game I play in, our DM has given me a little leeway with regards to that... in 3.0 the requirement was 60' IIRC. She never made our players roll a listen check, but if you're 90' out and in the middle of melee, I'd start dusting off the rules for a listen check, and range to target.

Now... with the Now an Ally, now I'm not... this happened in our game, the DM ruled that the effect ceased instantly for the turncoat.

 

[Lodow MoBo]

FYI
the zero lvl spell Message is a must for this reason