Bards - let's hear some strategies and suggestions, please.

[Moebius]

Excellent. Thank you all. Since he's starting out at 4th, it's nice to have a bit to work with. And since we've got a cleric, and a monk, i think both healing and damage are covered (not to mention to rogue and wizard), so i think i'll focus on buffing and maybe a bit of that light crossbow.

Much appreciated.

 

[Gizzard]

You dont have a Fighter, a Psi-Warrior or a Barbarian? I dont think you can count on the Monk to deal out damage, I put Monks in the same league as Bards or Rogues - support characters. They arent built to go toe-to-toe with big, angry creatures.

Anyway, the Bard. Our party is 3rd-4th level, the Bard has just become hugely useful by grabbing a handful of Cure Light Wounds spells to back up the Cleric. Before this, he contributed mostly with Daze and with a bow with the Precise Shot (shoot into melee) feat.

Looking at this gives you a good idea what kind of character is all about. He doesnt do heavy lifting like chopping up Goblins with a great axe or mowing down Orcs with Sleep. He sings a song which gives us all +1. Then he stuns the most dangerous foe a couple times. Then he breaks out the bow and contribitues a random d6 of damage every third round. Thats a lot of different, useful talents. But he's just supporting the real carnage; a party of 4 Bards would all to quickly end up in the Kobold Cook Pot.

 

[Zhure]

Kobold Cook Pot... what a lovely phrase.

In my similar thread, I already pointed out I've only seen one Bard in play and was underwhelmed, but I've little experience with them. At the time our Bard was about, we had no other PC healer, so the Bard became the Cleric. Until about 5th level, the Bard was better at it. After that, he couldn't compete with the Cleric.

Greg (nothing constructive to add)

 

[Stargher]

I'm playing a Barbarian/Bard in one campaign. She is aiming to become an Arcane Archer. So when battle begins, she sing an encouraging song, boost herself with Bull's Strength and Cat's Grace and Flies into a Rage with a Great Sword. Beware! And after the battle she can heal her mates. Naturally she can also fire 3 1d8+4 (+1d6 fire) arrows while running 80' per round...

FUN!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Don`t forget Use Magic Device. A Bard is the only character class with enough charisma and the use for charismaboosting equipment, so that Use Magic Device will become very powerful.
You can buy a Wand of Shield (Caster Level 2 recommended), a Wand of Magic Missile. You nearly act like a wizard in this case (Hey, wizards do never get many spells and have to rely on their wands, scrolls and similar things to cast some of their utility spells...)

Your spell selection depends on your group, but typically most wizards and sorcerers will avoid illusion & enchantment spells, since they are not useful or "powerful" enough for them. They are not the "buffing" guys.

Remember that most bardic songs have a longer duration than the duration you "sing" (or play your instrument), and at higher levels you can often afford to stop your singing and cast some spells / use wands and so on. With feats like Lingering Sound even your inspire Greatness can last the rest of the fight if you beginn singing in the first round and immediately stop it.

Oh, and if you design a bard like a real trader/merchant, you might be able to sell (especially in high magic worlds like Forgotten Realms) found but "useless" magic equipment to other "heroes", so that you gain maximum profit.
(I believe my bard has a Diplomacy bonus of +20 since the 8th or 9th level, maybe longer...)

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[KoboldKaizer128]

Bards should take everything nobody else can take. Have them take support , divination and healing spells and skills like Use Magic Device, Gather Info., Bluff, ect. They are best with bows because then you do not need a high strength.

 

[joshuacr]

Bard Aid

Don`t forget Use Magic Device. A Bard is the only character class with enough charisma and the use for charismaboosting equipment, so that Use Magic Device will become very powerful.
You can buy a Wand of Shield (Caster Level 2 recommended), a Wand of Magic Missile. You nearly act like a wizard in this case (Hey, wizards do never get many spells and have to rely on their wands, scrolls and similar things to cast some of their utility spells...)

Your spell selection depends on your group, but typically most wizards and sorcerers will avoid illusion & enchantment spells, since they are not useful or "powerful" enough for them. They are not the "buffing" guys.

Remember that most bardic songs have a longer duration than the duration you "sing" (or play your instrument), and at higher levels you can often afford to stop your singing and cast some spells / use wands and so on. With feats like Lingering Sound even your inspire Greatness can last the rest of the fight if you beginn singing in the first round and immediately stop it.

Oh, and if you design a bard like a real trader/merchant, you might be able to sell (especially in high magic worlds like Forgotten Realms) found but "useless" magic equipment to other "heroes", so that you gain maximum profit.
(I believe my bard has a Diplomacy bonus of +20 since the 8th or 9th level, maybe longer...)

Mustrum Ridcully

[Buzzer sounds] I'm sorry, trhe correct answer also included Warlock and other prestige classes for the Use Magic Device skill.

However, the spell selection and bardsong is correct.

Pretty much, see what needs to be supported. Not just in party strength, but in everyday use:

Have a good fighter? How can the bard support them, like aid another or magic/bardsong?
Have another rouge?
Where can the bard help flank?
You ARE the "rouge"?
Look into hiding, sneaking, finding traps, magically stopping them, and using the BLUFF skill to remove opponent's dexterity. And consider a class that gives you sneak attack damage.
PC's have some good skills? What other skills can the bard fill in with their 6 SP/level?
Have a cleric?
Have the bard offer support healing when they run out or UMD when they need to help in a hurry!
Have another arcanist?
What spells can the bard take that they didn't have or use to enhance (like if a bard and wizard both have a cooperate spell feat and a couple of good enhancing spells).
Need clever fighting?
Did you see they are one of the few classes (core) that has whip as a main proficiency? Use it to trip and hit from a distance. Or look into Lasher from the Sword and Fist book. Don't forget whip-dagger can cause lethal damage, and whips can "grab" onto things for both retreiving and swinging from items.
Need a party boost?
This is when the brdsong and magic shine! Always get haste if you can!
Yes, the bard truly is the jack of all trades and master of none. So see if your party needs a NPC character to focus on something, and do so. Then see how you can provide "backup".
Don'ty forget the other builder and "complete" books for PrC and other ideas, especially Complete Advunturer! I don't have the space here to show how you can use bards with that!
I AM,
--the truthseeker

 

[Humanophile]

I'm going to have to break from the pack here. They're very good suggestions for a player character, but NPC's have different needs. Your goal is going to be backup, so make a definate point of not stepping on anyone's shoes.

Grabbing a healing spell every level you can is a horrible option for PC bards, but for an NPC it lets him be great at the thing every player appreciates. After heals, look at buffs. After buffs, look at spells that hinder enemies, and spells that control the battlefield after that. My reasoning being that when you're running all the enemies, you probably won't be able to put as much thought into bardic tactics, so play something simple while conspiciously avoiding the impression that your bard can outdo the real stars of the show. If you have the head for it and want your players to think more tactically, feel free to make battlefield control spells a higher priority. (Take healing spells even though you have a cleric. Let the player feel good using useful spells, while you cover most of the unglamorous patching up.)

With a monk and a rogue, have some sneaking skills so you don't give the party away. After that, look at what skills the party doesn't have. Knowledges the wizard doesn't cover (plus history, of course). Social skills if nobody else has those. Listen is always good, as it gives the party yet another chance to avoid an unpleasant surprise. And of course, perform is vital. Feel free to give use magic device a pass; despite how much some people seem to like it, you already have a cleric and a wizard in the party to use items specific to those classes. Unless you plan on using a lot of race/alignment specific items, let actual player characters with guarenteed ability to use the items take precedent.

And for those times when the enemy just doesn't warrant using expendable resources, a bow and a blade are always handy. I do suggest precise shot if you do this, though. You're probably going to be sniping from the edge of the battlefield, best to have a good chance to hit whoever looks closest to going down.

 

[JoeBlank]

Careful giving advice here, looks like this thread got bumped from January 2002. I don't think those participating in the debate back then had access to the Compete series, or 3.5, etc.

Welcome to the boards, joshuacr. When you first find EN World it is hard to resist digging thru the wealth of information, but you should note the dates on older threads before responding to them.

 

[Marimmar]

Very observant - joeBlank!

~Marimmar